What manufacturers make pistols without MIM parts

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In the early days of MIM small parts for guns, there were a few problems with some...but not all...gun makers.

Those problems seem to have been ironed out.

A little story.

Some years back, a friend had acquired a new-to-him 0991 Colt Government Model aka "New Roll Mark" Colt. He wanted me to replace the MIM sear and disconnect for him. I suppose he was afraid they'd disintegrate at a critical moment.

I tried to talk him out of wasting his money, but he was adamant.

After the swap, I put on a little demonstration for him.

I laid the sear on an anvil concave side down and whacked it a couple times with a hammer. It didn't shatter, and when I installed it into another pistol...it functioned just fine. The trigger action was a little rough, but it worked.

Then I clamped the disconnect in a vise and gave it a whack from the slide. It bent, but didn't snap off. I had to beat it to nearly 90 degrees before it broke.

He was a little mystified over discovering that the stories he'd read on the internet weren't entirely...accurate.

Whether you love it or hate it...MIM is here to stay.
 
Show me the data documenting this significant failure rates of MIM parts.

This, in my view, is internet folklore.

Much ado about nothing.
 
I recently had to send my Kimber Ultra+ CDP II back to Kimber because the corners of the feed ramp had sheared off. Seems the feed ramp is an aluminum alloy, don't know whether or not it was MIM but for this to happen after only putting 277 rounds through it was pretty disconcerting.

No telling when I'll get the Kimber back, but in the meantime I went out and bought a new Dan Wesson V-Bob. Got it yesterday and took it to the range today and it is one sweet shooter. Just wish I hadn't put an idiot mark on the frame (SS matte finish :banghead:) the first time I reassembled it after its initial cleaning, but at least I know for sure there aren't any MIM parts in it. Maybe after its break-in period I'll get it re-bead blasted.
 
MIM is not used in aluminum parts.
It's a powdered steel technology.
Denis
 
Don't care if ya'll think MIM is good to go. Every pistol I've pulled all, or most, of the MIM out of, was improved greatly. Better parts are better parts.

Dan Wesson Valor, Vbob, CCO, ECO, Valkyrie, Specialist.
Guncrafter Industries 50 GI, No name, Frag, CCO.

It might be worth mentioning that there are also guns out there with good aftermarket parts that can be de-MIM'd for a reasonable cost as well:

Glock. Aftermarket extractor, striker, firing pin safety. Although the extractor is so beefy, I often stick to the stock one. Maybe tune it to reach in just a tick further. Maybe.

Colt Series 70 1911. Just put in an Cylinder and Slide trigger kit, a good aftermarket EGW slide stop, and slide bushing. IMO, if there are other MIM parts, they ain't doing much.
 
Radial tires are a foreign conspiracy. Detergent oil will ruin your engine.
Aluminum is an evil material. No red-blooded American would own a gun containing aluminum. It's for planes and boats. (But, purist boat people reject aluminum in favor of wood only.) Plastic? Fuhgeddabodit.
Cast steel (Ruger) is weak and unsafe compared to forged or milled. SuperRedhawk anybody?
Technology marches on. Done right it can be better/cheaper than the old way.
 
kvtcomdo said:
Show me the data documenting this significant failure rates of MIM parts.

This, in my view, is internet folklore.

Much ado about nothing.
Click to expand...

Doesn't have to fail to be cheap gritty garbage. Might not even be MIM's fault. Might just be a poorly engineered part. Or a manufacturing blem. There's no way I'll accept cheap critical trigger parts in any pistol anymore. Cast, MIM, forged, I don't care. If there is a better after market option, I'm going for it.

All my 1911 sears have to be the best quality. All of my Glock strikers are after market and replaced at the first sign of trouble. I'm not CCW'ing MIM anymore. Nope. But do whatever you want. I'm just not risking anything to cheap parts anymore.

Kimber thumb safeties. Seen those broken fairly regularly. I've seen a Glock striker tip wear. Even one striker failure at the tip. I've seen MIM, or maybe just cheap cast 1911 bushings fail. Ain't going cheap there again.

I have no problem with some MIM. Like the locking block in a Glock. That just isn't going to fail in anyway, it's just too big. Neither is the extractor spring plunger. But parts with serious impact stress on them, or parts responsible for my trigger feel, have got to go.

Oh, and stay away form titanium Glock parts. Improved, polished, stainless steel is fine.
 
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george burns wrote,
Now I am leaning towards a Range Officer compact, due to the fact that they have little to no MIM parts from what I read in the same article.
Click to expand...
I haven't read anything on the Range Officer Compact, but I would be very surprised if Springfield didn't have MIM parts in that gun. Springfield uses MIM in nearly their entire line-up. Of course so do other manufacturers in the same price range.
 
Might as well accept the fact that MIM technology is an established staple in today's handguns. For better or for worse, that isn't going to change. :banghead:

The only way to be sure any firearm is 100% free of such components is to buy a firearm (in particular, a 1911 pistol for example) made before such parts were introduced. I suggest 1965 as a cut-off date.

I don't believe that Smith & Wesson starting using MIM parts prior to 1996 or '97. Colt hand ejectors - go backward from 1970.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.
 
Colt Series 70 1911. Just put in an Cylinder and Slide trigger kit, a good aftermarket EGW slide stop, and slide bushing.
Click to expand...

Unless it was a new "Series 70" reissue...there weren't any MIM parts in it...and unless Colt has changed just recently, the slidestops and and barrel bushings have always been barstock. The EGW slidestop is probably an investment casting. Look on the back side of the arm for a parting line.
 
MIM

I've owned a lot of firearms. I've also fired them quite a bit. Personally, I've never had a MIM part fail. I give no thought at all about MIM parts being in arms I purchase. Just my experience and yours may vary.
 
mes228 said:
I've owned a lot of firearms. I've also fired them quite a bit. Personally, I've never had a MIM part fail. I give no thought at all about MIM parts being in arms I purchase. Just my experience and yours may vary.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. If the firearm is high-quality (Glock, S&W, Ruger, Colt, etc...), then I have no problem with MIM.

Also, there is one manufacturer-

http://www.cobrapistols.net/product-shadow.asp

-using MIM to make barrels as discussed in an article in the February 2010 issue of Combat Handguns
 
I am more interested in the source than the process. Good MIM is OK, I have been shooting a SA with the factory MIM lockwork under 4 lbs for several years now.

But now that SA says they are no longer in cahoots with Imbel, where are they getting their MIM. Have they added their own molding plant?

My FLG has samples of cast slide stops of three different brands. The mold marks and the flaws in the cast-in checkering are the same.

The mimwork site linked in an earlier post is Chinese. But if you go to their FAQ, it references Indo-MIM. Easier to Chinese Copy the English text or are they in cahoots?
 
Posted by george burns:
What manufacturers make pistols without MIM parts
Other than the High end like Wilson, do any guns come with no MIM parts, or is it just part of life nowadays. Of course you can buy an older gun, but let's see who currently makes a non MIM gun?
Not a debate about weather MIM parts are good or bad, just a question if anyone has an answer about Company's who don't use MIM parts. Colt? Perhaps some high end Springfield's?
Click to expand...
Is the reason for the question curiosity, or does the OP harbor a belief regarding the quality and/or durability of parts fabricated using powder metallurgy products?

The excellent firearms made by W in or before 1910. The only practical ways to fabricate strong precision steel parts in those days were to machine them from bar stock or to machine them from from forgings; if production quantities justified the cost of the forging dies, the latter might be used; otherwise, no.

For that reason, the Browning, Colt, Luger, Mauser, Smith and Wesson, Walther, and Webley handguns of the time had to be designed so that they could be produced using machined solid metal. That does not mean that this designs were the best that could have been devised had more magical production techniques been extant. It just means that that's all they had to work with.

Things have evolved a great deal in the manufacturing world in the last century.

Powder metallurgy is but one example. High speed machining of light alloys is another. So is the use of non-metallic materials altogether.

Contrary to what some people may tend to assume, the raisons d'être of the new materials and processes are not necessarily to reduce labor or other costs. The facts of the matter are that one can now design and build parts that could not be produced using century old methods. One example is the variable nozzle compressors used in diesel turbochargers.

Light alloy integral machinings in airframes not only cost less, they enable weight-saving design approaches, increased service lives, and improved maintainability. And new composite materials have led to the replacement of metals altogether in some applications.

MIM is just one way of employing powder metallurgy; other methods include various means of additive manufacturing. These and metal injection molding are the wave of the future. The methods that were available to the designers of 1905 to 1910 will become less and less prevalent--just as fluid steel replaced twist barrels before that.

Are MIM parts inferior in firearms applications? Well, when you get on an airliner using the next generation of gas turbine propulsion systems, you will be trusting your life to MIM parts in the compressors.

I wouldn't worry about the answer to the question.
 
Jeepers!
That'd cause great gastrointestinal distress in my house.......

Some things just should not be profaned!

Cast sears are bad enough. (Mine were replaced with tool steel.)
Cast frame doesn't even lose me any sleep.

But MIM?
To borrow from the late Sea Lord of WWII fame- That is something up with which I would not put! :)
Denis
 
High speed carbide cutter heads used in CNC milling machines and wood working tooling are all made of sintered metal or MIM. They seem to hold up just fine, much better than machined high speed steel tooling that they replaced.. If cutting steel while spinning at 20-30,000 rpm for hours at a time is not a high stress application I sure can't think of one...
 
Too bad that turbine blades and end mills aren't gun parts.

When stock MIM parts on cheaper guns, become better than aftermarket tool steel parts, I'll gladly leave them in my pistol.
 
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