What model handgun has been used to kill the most people?
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El Tejon
Member
TT33 and its Chinee clone.
PCRCCW
Member
Id have to say the Makarov or 1911 Colt...given both are military sidearms...time in service dictates alot.
Shoot well
Shoot well
In sheer numbers produced, use on both sides ofthe law and military use I'd bet the SW model 10 is up there.
Wars are fought with rifles.
Wars are fought with rifles.
El Tejon
Member
Dr., "sheer volume" compared to the TT33!?! One factory in Massachusetts vs. factories across Eastern Europe, the home forges of Central Asia, the Urals, and the Yellow River?
Tis true that wars are fought with rifles, but the TT33 and clones were used for the mass murders of socialism in Russia, Eastern Europe, China, Viet Nam, Cambodia, and across Afrika on a scale that is beyond comprehension to Western minds.
Tis true that wars are fought with rifles, but the TT33 and clones were used for the mass murders of socialism in Russia, Eastern Europe, China, Viet Nam, Cambodia, and across Afrika on a scale that is beyond comprehension to Western minds.
Zip06
Member
The TT-33 (and derivatives) has to be right up there on a world wide basis. OTOH the Germans did a pretty good job with P-38's, PP's, PPK's and a variety of other handguns. We also did a pretty good job with the .45 but if we are talking about Americans shooting Americans it would have to be some sort of .22.
dfariswheel
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Sickly enough, the pistols used to kill the most people, are the Tokarev and the various small Mauser and Walther 7.65mm pistols .
The reason: These were the favorite guns used by the Nazis and the Commies to execute Jews and political opponents.
One German wrote home proudly from the Ukraine that he had used his Mauser pistol to shoot 1000 people one long summer day, and this was a good days work.
In the Katynin Forest alone, the Russians shot 3000 Polish officers, all with the Tokarev.
The pistol shot to the head was always the favorite Russian and commie method, and of the 100 million people they murdered in the 20th century, who knows how many were by this method.
The reason: These were the favorite guns used by the Nazis and the Commies to execute Jews and political opponents.
One German wrote home proudly from the Ukraine that he had used his Mauser pistol to shoot 1000 people one long summer day, and this was a good days work.
In the Katynin Forest alone, the Russians shot 3000 Polish officers, all with the Tokarev.
The pistol shot to the head was always the favorite Russian and commie method, and of the 100 million people they murdered in the 20th century, who knows how many were by this method.
I am just guessing but I would think it would be a gun from a country that has been at war for the longest amount of time. U.S., British and German guns have only been used for brief peroids of war while Russia and China have been at war with someone in some fashion almost since the turn of the century.
I would guess the TT-33 also but maybe the Mak also.
I would guess the TT-33 also but maybe the Mak also.
Erik Jensen
Member
almost certainly the Nagant revolver or the Tokarev. lots and lots of "purges" in soviet russia..
RON in PA
Member
Don't forget the Nagant Revolver.
tiberius
Member
What about the Walker-Colt?
Wars for the most part are fought with rifles, but this baby was used quite effectively by the Texas Rangers against the Mexicans, Comanche and Yankees before breach loading rifles were widely used. They were their primary weapon and completely changed plains warfare. I have heard it referred to as the pistol that took the most lives, but that could just be hyperbole.
It probably is some more modern pistol just due to sheer numbers...but until someone produces numbers its all speculation.
Wars for the most part are fought with rifles, but this baby was used quite effectively by the Texas Rangers against the Mexicans, Comanche and Yankees before breach loading rifles were widely used. They were their primary weapon and completely changed plains warfare. I have heard it referred to as the pistol that took the most lives, but that could just be hyperbole.
It probably is some more modern pistol just due to sheer numbers...but until someone produces numbers its all speculation.
Keith
Member
A handgun shot to the back of the head was the prescribed method of execution in Soviet Russia. Given the number of people executed under Stalin, the Nagant or Tokarev would have to be in the top spot. I suspect it would be the Nagant since that handgun was more common until the war.
Keith
Keith
El Tejon
Member
tiberius, it is not speculation. It is called, "The Black Book of Communism."
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Greeting's All-
From a civilian standpoint, I've seen more folks KIA with
the .22 Long Rifle; than I have any other caliber.
Make and model of firearm varied?
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
From a civilian standpoint, I've seen more folks KIA with
the .22 Long Rifle; than I have any other caliber.
Make and model of firearm varied?
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Jaco
Member
Would say the Browning HP would be somewhere in the top. Was used by both sides in WWII, and in lots of wars thereafter.
Tamara
Senior Member
While the Nagant revolver got off to a good start, killing more people in a good month during the purges and relocation of the kulaks than the 1911 has in every conflict since 1912 combined, the TT33's adoption by so many other genocidal pestholes probably helped ease it into 1st place.
Whatever the answer is, it has to be associated with genocide. Keep in mind that during the 20th Century, more people were killed by their governments than died in all the wars. Most of those victims of government were genocides or political purges. I think all those that suggest the TT-33 are on the right track.
seeker_two
Member
Tokarev or the CZ-27 .32ACP....
Both widely used by Nazi & Communist regimes & widely exported by both...
Both widely used by Nazi & Communist regimes & widely exported by both...
SelfProclaimedExpert
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- 323
Hard to compete with the tools of mass execution, but I would imagine that British colonial wars and the Webley would have racked up some pretty serious use numbers. For many fighting officers this was the primary weapon, and they got used. They also continued to be used through WWII.
I'm going to agree with Tiberius, this is all speculation. Most governments don't keep careful records when, how and why they killed several million people. That kind of stuff is kept "off the books".
I'm going to agree with Tiberius, this is all speculation. Most governments don't keep careful records when, how and why they killed several million people. That kind of stuff is kept "off the books".
El Tejon
Member
Don't keep careful records??? They sure do! However, I would expect the Leftist media or the pooblik skuls to report it. Ahh, the benefits of socialism:
www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft2002/reviews/radosh.html
They sure do! However, I would expect the Leftist media or the pooblik skuls to report it. Ahh, the benefits of socialism:www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft2002/reviews/radosh.html
tiberius
Member
No doubt, the repressive governments of the 20th century did many terrible things and many – too many - people were executed by thugs with various comm-bloc weapons. When I say that it is “all speculationâ€, I am referring to the actual numbers killed by the actual types of pistols….That’s all. I think the best that we will get is an educated discussion of what may have caused the most deaths. I agreed that the Tokarov is a good choice for this dubious “honorâ€. Of course in the case of executions, a pistol’s quality and effectiveness is irrelevant, any would do equally well.
I have found where I got my Walker - Colt reference though, and while I am NOT claiming this to be an official answer, I do find it interesting.
It is from T.R Fehrenbach’s “Lonestar – A history of Texas and the Texans†when he is discussing the visit of Samuel H. Walker (capt. in the Texas Rangers) to Samuel Colt in 1840. As you know he is credited with detailing the shortcoming of the original Paterson-Colt from a field/combat perspective and helping Colt design what became the Walker-Colt which was the first real military revolver. Anyway, this is Fehrenbach’s quote that I remembered “……This was a horseman’s weapon. It, and its series of modifications and improvements, was to kill more men than any other handgun ever made.â€
I do not know where he got this reference. This book is not a real academic history, so there is little direct citation within the text, just an extensive bibliography relating to entire chapters. Even if this statement is completely accurate, I’m not sure how “and its series of modifications†is to be interpreted. Certainly it could include the other (smaller) cap and ball revolvers subsequently produced along this line, but would it also include the SAA? I hope not, but who knows.
I have found where I got my Walker - Colt reference though, and while I am NOT claiming this to be an official answer, I do find it interesting.
It is from T.R Fehrenbach’s “Lonestar – A history of Texas and the Texans†when he is discussing the visit of Samuel H. Walker (capt. in the Texas Rangers) to Samuel Colt in 1840. As you know he is credited with detailing the shortcoming of the original Paterson-Colt from a field/combat perspective and helping Colt design what became the Walker-Colt which was the first real military revolver. Anyway, this is Fehrenbach’s quote that I remembered “……This was a horseman’s weapon. It, and its series of modifications and improvements, was to kill more men than any other handgun ever made.â€
I do not know where he got this reference. This book is not a real academic history, so there is little direct citation within the text, just an extensive bibliography relating to entire chapters. Even if this statement is completely accurate, I’m not sure how “and its series of modifications†is to be interpreted. Certainly it could include the other (smaller) cap and ball revolvers subsequently produced along this line, but would it also include the SAA? I hope not, but who knows.
Keith
Member
If the Soviet purges are where the most people were killed by handguns (a safe bet since a shot to the head was the standard method of execution), then it has to be the Nagant revolver. Tok production was outpaced by the Nagant until the war started, so there must have been many more Nagants around until well after the war (and the worst of the purges) were over.
I pulled up the following on a Russian history site:
http://www.gunlab.com.ru/history.html
"In 1929 F. V. Tokarev created his first pistol. It has very long barrel and high capacity magazine for 22 cartridges. It was designed to shoot at the distances up to 700 meters. Its size and weight were unacceptable and in 1930 Tokarev designed famous TT. In the same year another testing happened. Were considered Korovin, Prilutski, Tokarev, Walther and Browning. Pistols were dropped into the box with sand and were tortured in many other ways. Tokarev won hard competition. In 1931 mass production was launched.
Nagants and TTs were manufactured simultaneously until the war, when experience showed advantages of TT. While in 1937 factories made 59824 pistols and 72086 revolvers, in 1942 they made 161485 pistols and 15485 revolvers."
I pulled up the following on a Russian history site:
http://www.gunlab.com.ru/history.html
"In 1929 F. V. Tokarev created his first pistol. It has very long barrel and high capacity magazine for 22 cartridges. It was designed to shoot at the distances up to 700 meters. Its size and weight were unacceptable and in 1930 Tokarev designed famous TT. In the same year another testing happened. Were considered Korovin, Prilutski, Tokarev, Walther and Browning. Pistols were dropped into the box with sand and were tortured in many other ways. Tokarev won hard competition. In 1931 mass production was launched.
Nagants and TTs were manufactured simultaneously until the war, when experience showed advantages of TT. While in 1937 factories made 59824 pistols and 72086 revolvers, in 1942 they made 161485 pistols and 15485 revolvers."
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