What Part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" Don't They Understand?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Zedicus

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
1,976
Location
Idaho
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2677.html

What Part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" Don't They Understand?
by Isaiah Z. Sterrett
23 September 2003

Senator Dianne Feinstein wants to renew the Assault Weapons Ban for another ten years, as do John Ashcroft and George W. Bush.



One of the most ancient debates among conservatives is whether liberals hate the Constitution, or simply don’t understand it. Some argue that the Left is far too blinded by their own ideology to comprehend the importance of the Constitution, and that they therefore lack the ability to interpret it honestly. I don’t think they deserve that much credit. There are a lot of words one could use to describe the American liberal, but “stupid†is not among them. They hate what we stand for as a nation, and they hate the Constitution.

In 1973 the Leftist movement, with the help of the United States Supreme Court, decided that a woman has a constitutional right to destroy her child. The author of that opinion, Justice Harry Blackmun, wrote that “the Constitution does not explicitly mention any right of privacy,†but then mystifyingly based his argument on a right of privacy. Go figure.

In the 1980s the Justices exercised a little sense -- obviously rather scarce at the Court when liberals have the majority -- and decided to uphold the Tenth Amendment, even when it came to silly laws against certain kinds of sex. They overturned that ruling this year, declaring that states cannot prohibit sex acts, of any kind or nature, which take place in the home. It was a wake-up call to conservatives; astonishingly, we’d always missed the Right To Gay Sex clause in our copy of the Bill of Rights.

The point is simple: liberals have a preternatural talent to manufacture rights and liberties in the Constitution that don’t exist. No issue better illustrates that truth than gun rights.

For decades conservatives have been trying to explain the Second Amendment to liberals, but they just won’t listen. They sniff that certainly our Founding Fathers didn’t really mean “people†(despite having written “peopleâ€); they were talking about the militia! The militia can carry as many guns as they please, but the people? Ordinary Americans? How could they be trusted?

In 1972 Associate Supreme Court Justice Douglas wrote that “There is no reason why all pistols should not be barred to everyone except the police.†On December 8, 1993, Chuck Schumer, the smarmy New York Democrat, called a press conference at which he said that America is going to “hammer guns on the anvil of relentless legislative strategy! We’re going to beat guns into submission!â€

In his Saturday radio address of November 15, 1997, Bill Clinton said that “Assault weapons in the hands of civilians exist for no reason but to inspire fear and wreak deadly havoc on our streets.â€

I guess the man who loathes the military loathes the Constitution more.

And now, Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) wants to renew the Assault Weapons Ban for another ten years. “Semi-automatic assault weapons -- which fire up to 250 rounds of ammunition within seconds and without warning -- are weapons of war that do not belong on the streets of our communities,†she wrote in a letter I received recently. “…military-style assault weapons are a danger on our streets and to our children.†Attorney General Ashcroft and President Bush have publicly supported her efforts.

The Second Amendment clearly states that the “right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.†That’s what the Framers wrote, like it or not. If Feinstein wants to introduce an amendment to the Constitution, nullifying that part of the Bill of Rights, she has that power, and if Congress approves, her wishes will be carried out. But until that point, her legislation will be manifestly unconstitutional.

Good Article! :)
 
re: Shall not be infringed!!!

If Feinstein wants to introduce an amendment to the Constitution, nullifying that part of the Bill of Rights, she has that power, and if Congress approves, her wishes will be carried out. But until that point, her legislation will be manifestly unconstitutional.

Ummm... no. I don't know where people cook up this thing about "being able to overturn the Nth amendment with another amendment."

It's bunk. How, you ask?

According to the Second amendment:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

According to the Ninth amendment:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

These prove that the notion of nullifying the 2nd is unconstitutional, and even laws that don't tromp on the listed rights, may still be unconstitutional.

Wes
 
Well, here we have the problem in a nutshell. Constitutionally speaking, “liberals†don’t understand that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed,†while “conservatives†won’t accept that the “right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects … shall not be violated.â€

Neither side of the American political dichotomy is really interested in freedom.

~G. Fink
 
Oh goody!

A thread that brings up homosexuality, AND abortion, and by extension, no doubt religion. Wheee...... :) Tread softly, guys.


Keeping to the original question though... I think they understand "shall not be infringed" just fine, most of 'em... it's "the right of the people" part they don't get. Further, speaking as a Former Liberal, I think I can safely say that it's not so much a hatred of the Constitution, or stupidity.. more a deliberate blindness with respect to the "outdated" parts because "we know better now." Hatred implies a conscious attempt to destroy something... rather, the leftist stance on the 2nd -- along with many on the right's stance on the 4th, as Gordon mentioned .. is simply to ignore the inconvenient bits.

-K
 
I'll agree that the "shall not be infringed" part is pretty clear. Unfortunately, that clause is somewhat mucked-up by the first part of the sentence, which states that "A well regulated militia,..." Now, I'm a "people," but I'm not part of a "militia," well regulated or not. So to be honest, I'm not sure what the Amendment actually means. I do know what I hope the Supreme Court decides it means...
 
Conservatives apparently don't understand the constitution either.

Its a restriction on government, NOT a granting of rights.

It is not necessary for the constitution to grant the right to keep arms, nor to have gay sex, nor to practice whatever religion you want, or to abort your child.

The constitution does not authorize congress to rule on any of these items, except for arms and religion, which it explicitly takes out of the hands of congress.

In order for congress to pass a law, they must show in the constitution where they are granted the authority... conservatives apparently cant' get this thru their heads any more than liberals can.

The constitution lost much of its value, if relying on the second ammendment is what is necessary to protect gun rights. Note that the second ammendment does not grant the right, it merely explicitly says that the [pre-existing] right shall not be infringed.

The rights of gays to marry, have sex, and the rights of anyone to do drugs, commit suicide, drive their cars, etc. all also pre-exist the constitution. They are ALL God given rights.
 
They understand exactly what "shall not be infringed" means.

They just don't CARE.

They see the B of R as an obstacle to be surmounted in forcing their agenda down our throats, rather than as words of peace and wisdom to live by.

It's really that simple.

They'll appeal to any theory that justifies their actions, but in the end, they just don't give a flying {bleep} about the freedoms and prerogatives of the individual, and neither do the people who keep electing them.

FURY
 
Old Fuff and Hkmp5sd: Thanks for the interesting links, I did a quick scan and will check them out more this weekend. One thing that jumped out was that I missed the 45-year-old cut-off by two years. That's truly a weird definition...
 
KayLee I realize you're a moderator, but...

Where did you read the subjects you mentioned in this thread?

Kind of like talking about a refrigerator and telling people to be careful about what they say about Fondue recipes ;)

Unfortunately what we have today are too many elected officials trying to "define" what the Founding Fathers meant when they were writing the Constitution. The problems isn't their lack of understanding the Constitution it's their inherent desire to want it to mean what it doesn't to shore up their ideology and belief. The founding fathers did not predate history so records are available to determine what they meant in some of the language (that is if one cannot figure it out in plain text, of course) in the Constitution.

Sadly, it's the insatiable appetite for power and control that drives these officials to bastardize the meaning of our rights under the Constitution, not their misunderstanding. They know exactly what they're doing. We tend to think, or want to believe, that these folks are just stupid or just don't understand BUT that is far from the case. They WANT to take your rights away from you to establish dominance and control which is why exercising your right to vote, recall officials and any other safe guard a US citizen has is imperative to our freedom.

Take care all,

DRC
 
"Semi-automatic assault weapons -- which fire up to 250 rounds of ammunition within seconds and without warning ..."

Holy toledo! A semi-auto that can fire 250 rounds in seconds, and doesn't warn you beforehand? A regular stealth bullet hose! Sounds like a hell of a weapon! Where can I get one?
 
Don Galt Said:
Conservatives apparently don't understand the constitution either.

Its a restriction on government, NOT a granting of rights.

Don is a guy that truly understands...

Unfortunately too few people understand the above to make it matter. How many times have you heard a gun owner say it is his/her 2nd Amendment right to own a firearm? What they should be saying is that it is my natural god given right to own a firearm and the government is forbidden by the 2nd Amendment to take away that right.

But the courts in our society can pretty much do what ever the heck they want to do regardless of whether it is in accordance with the law or the constitution. They regularly ignore the 10th Amendment and have applied the 1st to so many things it wasn't meant to apply to that it's funny (for example the right to free speech was originally meant to protect political speech - now it applies to just about any type of speech).

If the courts decide that it is illegal for anyone to own a firearm in the USA then short of revolution the reality is that there isn't a single thing anyone can do about it. And that my friends is exactly where the USA is heading - 50 years from now we'll be a disarmed society. I'm glad I won't be around to see it (might be though - if I can make it to a hundred - that's a scary thought).
 
Sorry KayLee. Sorry Gordon.

I thought KayLee was referring to one of the posters not the article itself.

Oh and Gordon? You might want to lay off that head bangin'. Looks painful.

DRC
 
Same 'ol story. Each side warps the Constitution to support (or at least not prevent) whatever kind of tyranny they want to peddle that day, be it those damn liberals trying to disarm a nation on the path to tyranny, or staunch conservatives trying to dictate what is acceptable for consenting adults to do in their own homes.

...*sigh*...

:(
 
Y'all just about got it right - almost.

Well, here we have the problem in a nutshell. Constitutionally speaking, “liberals†don’t understand that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed,†while “conservatives†won’t accept that the “right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects … shall not be violated."

Except that the Repubs and Demos both want tp restrict your roghts in both areas. They merely play you, one against the other. I'll buy your arguement enough on its face, but not on the follow-through. Both want control over you - in any way they can - & they do.

"Neither side of the American political dichotomy is really interested in freedom."

Agree.

"Keeping to the original question though... I think they understand "shall not be infringed" just fine, most of 'em... it's "the right of the people" part they don't get. Further, speaking as a Former Liberal, I think I can safely say that it's not so much a hatred of the Constitution, or stupidity.. more a deliberate blindness with respect to the "outdated" parts because "we know better now." Hatred implies a conscious attempt to destroy something... rather, the leftist stance on the 2nd -- along with many on the right's stance on the 4th, as Gordon mentioned .. is simply to ignore the inconvenient bits."

Disagree.

It is a concerted effort to take away every bit of lattitude that we are guaranteed under the bor.

By implying that certain aspect are "not personal," or "are collective," they shunt the whole discussion off into a never-never land of "what-ifs."

It is a concerted effort to ensure that we are confused & can make fuzzy decisoons based on realativities.

Nuts!

& BS! Both the Right & the Left play this same game to further define what "we believe."

Total BS!

The bors says exactly what it does, was written for laymen in th elanguage of the time & is as easily read as whether or not your first date will allow you that first kiss, or not.

There really is no dispute about it all - was it as sweet as you wished, or was it a trial?

"Don Galt,

It is not necessary for the constitution to grant the right to keep arms, nor to have gay sex, nor to practice whatever religion you want, or to abort your child.
(emphasis added)

"to abort your child"

Huge!

& I would query how, in God's name, one could (w/out going further south on the topic) that one could, under "LIFE, liberty & the pursuit of happiness" terminate an unborn - a progeny, "to abort your (future) child," your son, or daughter - because it may be become inconvenient.

I may have read you totally 180 degrees & apologies advanved offered in the off-chance. Sincerely. Still, the "offer" stands for our "more enlightened."

"Same 'ol story. Each side warps the Constitution to support (or at least not prevent) whatever kind of tyranny they want to peddle that day, be it those damn liberals trying to disarm a nation on the path to tyranny, or staunch conservatives trying to dictate what is acceptable for consenting adults to do in their own homes."

Yup.

Neither side has any constitutional legal standing, nor any "moral authority."

Tell y'all what.

Get out of my life.

Other than me causing harm to you & yours', you have no business there - none.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top