GJgo
Member
Say I was to get a new SA revolver- my first. I want one in .357 mag or .41 mag, with a 5-6" barrel, and that is safe to carry with a round under the hammer. What brands / models do you guys suggest?
WHat should I look for in my first single action revolver?
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22-rimfire
Member
My recommendation is to pick up a Ruger Blackhawk. They make it in both 41 mag and 357 mag. I have one in 41 mag that I bought new last year.
Another Ruger Blackhawk vote but I'd go for the 357. 41 Mag is a good round but unless you reload you don't have a wide choice of factory ammo. 38 special and 357 mag give you the greatest choice of bullet weights and styles in factory ammo than any other centerfire revolver caliber.
Unless you really need the extra power of the 41 I'd get the 357. If you need the extra power, I'd go to a Super Blackhawk in 44 mag which will still have a greater choice of factory ammo than 41 mag.
Unless you really need the extra power of the 41 I'd get the 357. If you need the extra power, I'd go to a Super Blackhawk in 44 mag which will still have a greater choice of factory ammo than 41 mag.
BroughtEnoughGun
Member
Definitely a Ruger Blackhawk, they are great guns
gunman42782
Member
Another vote for Ruger!
Harve Curry
Member
RUGER
OP
OP
GJgo
Member
Thanks guys. I currently have a Smith 629 classic .44 mag with a magna port, which I love. I used to have a .357 2" and a .41 4", and I still have brass and bullets for both. Yes, I do reload for everything but my carry piece.
I'm leaning towards a .357.
Can the Ruger SA guns take pretty hot loads? I've heard that is the case with their DA units. My SP101 could take more juice than I could..
I'm leaning towards a .357.
Can the Ruger SA guns take pretty hot loads? I've heard that is the case with their DA units. My SP101 could take more juice than I could..
Ifishsum
Member
Ruger Blackhawks are about as stout as they come for shooting hot loads. Most load books list "Ruger only" loads for cartridges like the .45 Colt. The old model Vaquero is the same frame as the Blackhawk if you want a bit more of the cowboy look and don't mind fixed sights.
Jim March
Member
There's only three makers of transfer-bar equipped SAs.
Throw the Taurus Gaucho out of the running. QA issues.
The Beretta "Stampede" series is similar in size and heft to the Colt SAA, which means it tops out at 357. You can also get them in 45LC but you can't run barn-burner rounds of the 45LC+P type - cylinder walls are too thin. So in 45LC you max out with a 255gr hardcast doing 1,000fps for a bit over 500ft/lbs energy. As a 357 this gun can shoot the "wild child" Buffalo Bore, Doubletap or Grizzly loads running as high as a 170gr hardcast at 1,450fps, energy up around 800ft/lbs. They aren't made in 41Mag.
The Rugers are the most complex.
The Ruger "New Vaquero" is a new mid-size gun similar in size and heft (and strength) to the Colt SAA or Beretta Stampede, so everything I just said about 357 and 45LC loads for the Berettas applies here.
The Ruger 50th Anniversary Blackhawk 357 is basically the same mid-size frame as the New Vaq, in 357 only, with adjustable sights. If you want adjustable sights in this class of gun it rocks.
All other Ruger Blackhawks and SuperBlackhawks made from 1973 forward are based on a larger frame size capable of 44Mag and above horsepower. In 45LC you can run monster ammo such as Buffalo Bore's 325gr @ 1,300fps "45 of doom" load. They were also offered in 44Mag (mainly SuperBlackhawks), 41Magnum, 357Magnum and other calibers. The "Hunter" variants are interesting as they have heavy 7.5" barrels with integrated scope mounts for scope rings (included in the box). Hunters were made mostly in 44Mag but some 41Mag and 45LC variants exist.
The "original Vaquero" is now discontinued. It was fixed sight, based on the same large frame as the Blackhawks, Hunters, etc. except fixed-sight instead of adjustable.
In the Ruger world, "Bisley" means it had a different grip, very low hammer and more curved trigger. This setup is well regarded for its ability to handle big recoil. You'll see Bisley Hunters, Bisley Vaqueros and just plain "Bisleys" which are basically similar to Blackhawks or SuperBlackhawks depending on caliber.
OK, how do you pick?
What's your need? Examples:
* "Fun gun/range gun": you're going to want adjustable sights for sure for playing with various loads. Probably a basic Blackhawk.
* Lower 48 states "woods/backpacking gun": probably run a 50th Aniversary 357 for it's smaller, handier size - a lot of this will depend on your hand size of course.
* Alaska-grade critter defense: you want a SuperBlackhawk in 44Mag, likely one of the shorter barrels.
* Boar/deer hunting: get a hunter
. On a budget, find a used SuperBlackHawk with a longer barrel (7.5" is common) as there were scads of these made and deals are to be had.
* Street defense/CCW: There's a 3.5" short-barrel "Montado" version of the NewVaq in 45LC that is just sweet. Lower SuperBlackHawk hammer. Speer has a 250gr really fat mouth JHP that does about 900fps or so that should be a superb stopper.
What else...
* Rugers are good guns, but they do make a lemon now and then. Use the "checkout procedure" (stickied post) to identify such even on a new gun. Average quality control and accuracy on the mid-frames (New Vaq and 50th Blackhawk 357) is actually higher than the large-frames by at least a bit.
* Parts swapping. You would not believe how much aftermarket stuff is out there for Rugers. Want to swap grip frames, hammers, sights, etc? Yeah. And parts swapping often works across different Ruger guns.
So which is mine?
Ruger NewVaq 357, 4.68" barrel with improved fixed sights and SuperBlackhawk hammer like the Montado (and I did that mod years before the Montado shipped). It's a daily carry CCW gun complete with "psychological warfare".
That said, I'm considering converting it to 44Spl. Reason being, the 357 (and 41Mag) need to be supersonic (WAY supersonic) to work well. That means big noise, big recoil. (Speed of sound is 1050fps or so.) The 44Spl, 45LC and 45ACP work great at subsonic speeds and of those three, for a number of reasons I'm going to go to the 44Spl I think. More cylinder beef available than the 45LC, bigger shell and less pressure than the 45ACP. This swap means finding a Ruger SuperBlackHawk 44Mag barrel, chopping it to 4", swapping it out and having the stock 357 cylinder reamed to 44Spl. It means re-doing the front sight again (sigh) but I want to do something more radical anyhow...
(The advantages of the 44Spl over the 45LC in an SAA/NewVaq size platform are very minimal. Since I'm in a position to pick at equal cost I'm going to the 44Spl, but new the 45LC "factory made" will be much less and a better idea in terms of price/performance. And there's some bichin' loads in that caliber...that Speer 250 alone may cause me to do 45LC regardless...)
--------
Oh yeah. There's one more transfer-bar SA. The Freedom Arms '97 frame. If spending $1,300+ doesn't scare you, it's a hell of a good gun. Ask about that if you're interested.
Throw the Taurus Gaucho out of the running. QA issues.
The Beretta "Stampede" series is similar in size and heft to the Colt SAA, which means it tops out at 357. You can also get them in 45LC but you can't run barn-burner rounds of the 45LC+P type - cylinder walls are too thin. So in 45LC you max out with a 255gr hardcast doing 1,000fps for a bit over 500ft/lbs energy. As a 357 this gun can shoot the "wild child" Buffalo Bore, Doubletap or Grizzly loads running as high as a 170gr hardcast at 1,450fps, energy up around 800ft/lbs. They aren't made in 41Mag.
The Rugers are the most complex.
The Ruger "New Vaquero" is a new mid-size gun similar in size and heft (and strength) to the Colt SAA or Beretta Stampede, so everything I just said about 357 and 45LC loads for the Berettas applies here.
The Ruger 50th Anniversary Blackhawk 357 is basically the same mid-size frame as the New Vaq, in 357 only, with adjustable sights. If you want adjustable sights in this class of gun it rocks.
All other Ruger Blackhawks and SuperBlackhawks made from 1973 forward are based on a larger frame size capable of 44Mag and above horsepower. In 45LC you can run monster ammo such as Buffalo Bore's 325gr @ 1,300fps "45 of doom" load. They were also offered in 44Mag (mainly SuperBlackhawks), 41Magnum, 357Magnum and other calibers. The "Hunter" variants are interesting as they have heavy 7.5" barrels with integrated scope mounts for scope rings (included in the box). Hunters were made mostly in 44Mag but some 41Mag and 45LC variants exist.
The "original Vaquero" is now discontinued. It was fixed sight, based on the same large frame as the Blackhawks, Hunters, etc. except fixed-sight instead of adjustable.
In the Ruger world, "Bisley" means it had a different grip, very low hammer and more curved trigger. This setup is well regarded for its ability to handle big recoil. You'll see Bisley Hunters, Bisley Vaqueros and just plain "Bisleys" which are basically similar to Blackhawks or SuperBlackhawks depending on caliber.
OK, how do you pick?
What's your need? Examples:
* "Fun gun/range gun": you're going to want adjustable sights for sure for playing with various loads. Probably a basic Blackhawk.
* Lower 48 states "woods/backpacking gun": probably run a 50th Aniversary 357 for it's smaller, handier size - a lot of this will depend on your hand size of course.
* Alaska-grade critter defense: you want a SuperBlackhawk in 44Mag, likely one of the shorter barrels.
* Boar/deer hunting: get a hunter
. On a budget, find a used SuperBlackHawk with a longer barrel (7.5" is common) as there were scads of these made and deals are to be had.* Street defense/CCW: There's a 3.5" short-barrel "Montado" version of the NewVaq in 45LC that is just sweet. Lower SuperBlackHawk hammer. Speer has a 250gr really fat mouth JHP that does about 900fps or so that should be a superb stopper.
What else...
* Rugers are good guns, but they do make a lemon now and then. Use the "checkout procedure" (stickied post) to identify such even on a new gun. Average quality control and accuracy on the mid-frames (New Vaq and 50th Blackhawk 357) is actually higher than the large-frames by at least a bit.
* Parts swapping. You would not believe how much aftermarket stuff is out there for Rugers. Want to swap grip frames, hammers, sights, etc? Yeah. And parts swapping often works across different Ruger guns.
So which is mine?
Ruger NewVaq 357, 4.68" barrel with improved fixed sights and SuperBlackhawk hammer like the Montado (and I did that mod years before the Montado shipped). It's a daily carry CCW gun complete with "psychological warfare".
That said, I'm considering converting it to 44Spl. Reason being, the 357 (and 41Mag) need to be supersonic (WAY supersonic) to work well. That means big noise, big recoil. (Speed of sound is 1050fps or so.) The 44Spl, 45LC and 45ACP work great at subsonic speeds and of those three, for a number of reasons I'm going to go to the 44Spl I think. More cylinder beef available than the 45LC, bigger shell and less pressure than the 45ACP. This swap means finding a Ruger SuperBlackHawk 44Mag barrel, chopping it to 4", swapping it out and having the stock 357 cylinder reamed to 44Spl. It means re-doing the front sight again (sigh) but I want to do something more radical anyhow...
(The advantages of the 44Spl over the 45LC in an SAA/NewVaq size platform are very minimal. Since I'm in a position to pick at equal cost I'm going to the 44Spl, but new the 45LC "factory made" will be much less and a better idea in terms of price/performance. And there's some bichin' loads in that caliber...that Speer 250 alone may cause me to do 45LC regardless...)
--------
Oh yeah. There's one more transfer-bar SA. The Freedom Arms '97 frame. If spending $1,300+ doesn't scare you, it's a hell of a good gun. Ask about that if you're interested.
Seafarer12
Member
I say go with a blackhawk in 38/357. I have an old model blackhawk and it's my favorite pistol. I personally wouldn't fool with the cowboy action guns unless that is what your wanting to do with it. I like having adjustable sights.
MCgunner
Member
Ruger Blackhawk. That's all you need to know...
Fixed sights...Ruger Vaquero
Adjustable sights Ruger Blackhawk
I have one of each..Glossy Stainless "Sheriff's Model" Vaquero has a 3-1/2" or 3-3/4" barrel fixed sights.
50Th Year .357 Blackhawk. 4-5/8" barrel adjustable sights. Mr. March pretty well covered the various Ruger offerings.
Adjustable sights Ruger Blackhawk
I have one of each..Glossy Stainless "Sheriff's Model" Vaquero has a 3-1/2" or 3-3/4" barrel fixed sights.
50Th Year .357 Blackhawk. 4-5/8" barrel adjustable sights. Mr. March pretty well covered the various Ruger offerings.
Virginian
Member
Ruger. In whatever configuration you prefer; Vaquero (old), Vaquero (new), Blackhawk, or Bisley, in Blued, or Stainless Steel.
Jim March
Member
Sure. But then you have an "oversize" gun for your needs, and what I said about average QC on the mid-frames still holds.
That said: I would have been better off it turns out starting with a NewVaq 45LC versus a 357. Yes, the 357 has more peak power on tap but it's overall heavier (thicker barrel and meatier cylinder). Plus, I have to run supersonic ammo for decent performance. With a 45LC or 44Spl, weight and power and everything else are close to a wash with a slight edge to the 44Spl (slightly more performance on tap, slightly thicker cylinder walls for a bit more strength). But the difference isn't worth converting a 357 unless that's what you have already...
Do I recommend going the route I took? Nope. It's going to cost me. But I'll end up with a better gun than a stocker and I'd rather put extra money into improving and tuning what I've got rather than buy another gun. For one thing, this thing is a good shooter now, that won't change with another caliber. And I'll get exactly what I want, for less than the cost of another gun.
Timthinker
Member
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I have owned several Ruger single-action revolvers and have no difficulty recommending them to others. All of them have proven very reliable and accurate. Which Ruger should you purchase? If you enjoy cowboy action shoots, then purchase a Vaquero. If you prefer the greater accuracy afforded by adjustable sights, then the Blackhawk is the winner.
In terms of caliber, I would favor the .357 over the .41 due to versatility and availability of ammo. Before ending this post, I should point out that other caliber choices are available. Please consider them before you make your final decision. That said, good luck and enjoy your new revolver.
Timthinker
In terms of caliber, I would favor the .357 over the .41 due to versatility and availability of ammo. Before ending this post, I should point out that other caliber choices are available. Please consider them before you make your final decision. That said, good luck and enjoy your new revolver.
Timthinker
JNewell
Member
Great thread. I vote Ruger also.
Jim's post is incredibly thorough. You could boil it down a bit as follows.
If you want to shoot max-o loads, get a New Model Blackhawk (adjustable sights) or an "old" Vaquero (fixed sights). As a slight variation, in .44 Mag, I think the Bisley grip is a huge improvement for recoil control.
If you want a gun of normal strength (still probably stronger than a 686), the New Vaquero (fixed sights) or the 50th Anniversary Blackhawk (same mid-sized frame, adjustable sights) are the way to go. More on this...
It does indeed. I bought one last weekend - really wonderful gun, and a nice change from the full-size Super Blackhawk frame that all New Model Blackhawks, New Model Super Blackhawks and "old" (it doesn't say that anywhere) Vaqueros are built on. I also like the more compact "XR3" gripframe. They're not especially rare, since they made them all year in 2005 and probably ran off 14-15k copies. However, there are a lot of sellers who are very proud of having one for sale and prices (of ones that haven't sold) can be higher than they should be, so if you want to go that way, shop around a bit.
Jim's post is incredibly thorough. You could boil it down a bit as follows.
If you want to shoot max-o loads, get a New Model Blackhawk (adjustable sights) or an "old" Vaquero (fixed sights). As a slight variation, in .44 Mag, I think the Bisley grip is a huge improvement for recoil control.
If you want a gun of normal strength (still probably stronger than a 686), the New Vaquero (fixed sights) or the 50th Anniversary Blackhawk (same mid-sized frame, adjustable sights) are the way to go. More on this...
It does indeed. I bought one last weekend - really wonderful gun, and a nice change from the full-size Super Blackhawk frame that all New Model Blackhawks, New Model Super Blackhawks and "old" (it doesn't say that anywhere) Vaqueros are built on. I also like the more compact "XR3" gripframe. They're not especially rare, since they made them all year in 2005 and probably ran off 14-15k copies. However, there are a lot of sellers who are very proud of having one for sale and prices (of ones that haven't sold) can be higher than they should be, so if you want to go that way, shop around a bit.
Easy choice-----RUGER Blackhawk! If you can find one, and there are still alot of them out there, get the .357M 50th Anniverary model. Same size as Colt SAA, but safer, stronger and has adjustable sights.I have the exact same pistola and love it.
wheelgunslinger
Member
Jim March gave you about as succinct, well reasoned, researched, and experienced reply as you'll ever see on a message board or in a magazine.
So, take that for what it's worth.
I'll vote for Ruger too.
They're not indestructible, but they're good guns.
If you want something more cowboy, go for the vaquero in 357.
If you want something a little more useful for hunting and such, get a blackhawk.
My first SA was a Bisley Vaquero. I still love that one, but traded it away like a moron.
When you buy one, dig up some old reprint articles from John Taffin and Ross Seyfried on the single action. Those gents know a lot of good tips you will want to learn.
So, take that for what it's worth.
I'll vote for Ruger too.
They're not indestructible, but they're good guns.
If you want something more cowboy, go for the vaquero in 357.
If you want something a little more useful for hunting and such, get a blackhawk.
My first SA was a Bisley Vaquero. I still love that one, but traded it away like a moron.
When you buy one, dig up some old reprint articles from John Taffin and Ross Seyfried on the single action. Those gents know a lot of good tips you will want to learn.
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GJgo
Member
Jim, thanks a bunch for that excellent reply. Everyone else, thanks as well!
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