inthelineofire
Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2009
- Messages
- 78
Cost is not an issue here. I bought a little of everything before prices skyrocketed, and it's not like I'm going to need 100 rounds for my HD shotgun.
Wow, it only took 12 posts for someone to bring up this terrible idea... I'd love to see this video. I'm guessing it shows water jugs exploding or some such.
And do I expect one shot to knock a BG out of his socks dead? No, that is why I have 7 shots. One shot might not stop a BG, but I am reasonable sure he will freeze up for a second. A second is all that is needed for a follow up shot, and another as needed.
I want my FIRST SHOT to STOP the perp
a mockup of four interior "walls" with each wall 1/2" sheetrock spaced with 2"x4"'s. Just like real life
That is where you and I are different. I want my FIRST SHOT to STOP the perp.... Not make him "freeze up for a second." I don't really want to NEED take a follow up shot.
My walls have insulation in them.
A situation that would allow its use is that your life is, presumably, in danger
why would it drop a 200 Lbs human?
So the video specifically showed that the penetration of birdshot is woefully inadequate... If it won't penetrate a couple layers of drywall it won't penetrate to vitals.In almost every case except birdshot, at least part of the round (if not all) made it through all four walls and an unknown distance beyond that.
It has been tested. It does not have the penetration it needs to work reliably.Lets test it.
Are you serious?Get hit with 5-6 paintballs all at the same time. Your body will be frozen in pain for at least several seconds.
Down here I can't kill bystanders to save my own neck. And I don't want to kill my wife or kid a couple rooms over either.
Lets test it. You start 20 feet from me, and see if you can get to me before I stop you.
Get hit with 5-6 paintballs all at the same time. Your body will be frozen in pain for at least several seconds.
Some people here think that birdshot at 20 feet will be like using a squirt gun.
Don't bother responding if nothing less than 3.5" magnum slugs/000 buckshot shells are all you can imagine other people using. I personally would not even be using a shotgun but for peneration is now a real issue in our house.
The fact is anything that can preform like it needs to for SD/HD will be able to go through drywall.
What professional training have you acquired in the defensiveuse of shotguns?
Shotguns may be the most powerful repeating shoulder-fired gun available, but when stoked with 00 buckshot they are certainly not a low-penetration option. In fact, the way the pellets spread out after passing through intermediate barriers makes the safety of anyone or anything within three rooms of a shotgun blast highly dubious.
Cost is not an issue here. I bought a little of everything before prices skyrocketed, and it's not like I'm going to need 100 rounds for my HD shotgun.
A .380 would be vastly better for defense than birdshot“what .380 for SD”
No, but you're trying to sell it as being sufficient for defense.I am not trying to sell birdshot as a super duper penetrator.
And you're in a rut of putting yourself and your family in danger by using a round that won't stop a threat. You say you're balancing your safety with your neighbors, but you're selling yourself short.You seem to be in a rut of only thinking about your own skin.
Right, because if someone says birdshot isn't enough for HD they must think you should use a .458 Win Mag with solids Again with the false dilemma.You amuse me because you sound like the guy where going to the corner store with anything less than a 10MM, a New York reload and 50 rounds of ammo is akin to committing suicide.
Because we all know there's only a .001% difference in performance between buckshot and birdshot...I’m not going to send buckshot into their houses to increase the odds of my own survival by 0.001%.
Maybe you should figure out your shooting lanes ahead of time. Remember, you're not going to be clearing your house SWAT style. Hole up, defend, ambush. Pick your shots.I have families with little kids on three sides of me, not to mention my own family.
Then why is 00 Buck more available?
It seems like if #1 was better, that would be the size most commonly available.
Consider the larger cop departments & the military can get mass quantities of anything they want made.
If #1 was better then 00, they would all be using #1, and it would be most commonly available.
getting that close to a home intruder
Maybe you should figure out your shooting lanes ahead of time. Remember, you're not going to be clearing your house SWAT style. Hole up, defend, ambush. Pick your shots.
Because we all know there's only a .001% difference in performance between buckshot and birdshot...
A .380 would be vastly better for defense than birdshot
Are any of these people actual professionals? I can find you plenty of random dudes on internet forums who think birdshot is great (Hey, look at you!). What exactly is your criteria for people with "experiance"? [sic] I also like how you linked to a story about a guy who shot himself at point blank range with both barrels of birdshot and he didn't die...From what I have read on the subject, people with actual experiance give birdshot decent marks at HD range
Did you think I was talking about a single shot .380?am sure that after taking as many hits as i can give you (starting 20 feet away)...
Wait, paintballs will make someone freeze with pain but being shot with a .380 won't?Wow! Other than scoring a lucky CNS hit, I am sure I could get to someone (20 feet away) with a .380 and still be able to fight for a while.
See, that's just the thing. I don't want to rely on what someone may make someone uninterested in fighting. I want to rely on something that can make them incapable of fighting.you won't be interested in fighting when and if you get here.
Well let's see here...one reliably penetrates to vitals, one reliably fails to penetrate to vitals. When it comes to actually STOPPING someone, that's an ENORMOUS difference. If it were .0001% don't you think all the police agencies would be using birdshot instead of buckshot?What differance would you give it? And what data do you support that with?
Yes, that is an excellent link. Let's take a look at it, shall we?http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm
I hadn't seen this link before. Good information on wall peneration of different shotgun loadings.
Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?
We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.
A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.
In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.
Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.