What the Heck is Wrong with People?

[Dienekes]

Used to teach some NRA firearms classes but most people are not really trainable anymore. I still do the occasional one-on-one (for free, no less) but it's rare. Even so--I once spent some time working with a young man and thought I had gotten across to him. Then went out to the public range one day to find him shooting his shiny new Ruger P90. The part that really impressed me was when he twirled it. He didn't notice me. I just left.

There is also the unlikely but potential possibility of teaching some yahoo who does something stupid a few years down the line and then claims he learned it from you.

Sometimes its like teaching pigs to sing--it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

at the club where i shoot, eye and ear protection is mandatory. you'd be surprised at how many people sight in their hunting rifles with neither. as soon as I take out my .300 WSM they either put on ear protection or leave

 

[ravencon]

It is my life long observation that a significant percentage of the population is quite stupid, that includes gun folk.

There are no public, unsupervised ranges where I live. If there were, I wouldn't use them anyway. Being around morons with guns makes me uneasy. The private ranges I belong to have strict rules and when I use them there is rarely anyone there anyway. Just the way I like it.

 

[walking arsenal]

What I don't understand is why those of us with the intellect to wear ear protection don't go over and educate the dolts you don't on the dangers of going without, and then offer them a set of cheep plugs.

Heck why stop there.

If someone is waving a gun around in an unsafe manner call them on it.

Shooting while someone is down range, explain why they need to pay attention. They do it again throw them out.

 

[MT GUNNY]

walking arsenal is right

If we the educated dont do are part by helping others understand the four rules (politly or acertivly, when it calls for it) Then we fail to protect our right to keep and bear arms.

 

[James T Thomas]

save us from ourselves -please!

Andrewski:

You are correct as far as the basic rules of firearm safety. I did not mean to imply that they should also be disregarded in the sacrifice for freedom.

However, as you are aware, I'm sure; the "rules" cannot posibly cover every situation, all the time. If you believe so, you should run for Congress and help them "promulgate" the never ceasing bills into laws that we have to try to live under. All for justifiably "good" intentions and reasoning.

I do feel I'm correct when it comes to making it a requirement to wear ear protection.
A recommendation -yes! Enforced compliance -no.

 

[Zoogster]

For the life of me, I do not understand why anyone would use an unsupervised range open to the public. You are asking for trouble.

Those are both the best possible ranges and the worst ones. It is all I try to use.

I do not like being around others I do not know in such an informal place shooting firearms, however I love the types of shooting I can do. With nobody else around there is some areas you can practice all kinds of tactics. From firing on the move, firing while approaching, while retreating. Penetration tests of various materials. Using 3d objects to test the performance of various rounds on real life materials and getting a more reactive target at the same time.

There are a lot of bad reasons to pack up and leave and avoid them at some times, and some great reasons to enjoy them other times.

You think that is bad. I know a range that is essentialy a lot of high hills about 15 feet high in all different directions with pull outs in various spots. People can end up shooting towards eachother, over eachother, and at 90 degree angles from one another. There is no line of sight to eachother in many areas, and big mounds of earth in the way, but something is just wrong with bullets going by over your head, even if it is 10 feet over your head
It is hard to picture if you have not been there, but essentialy it is very hilly terrain with tons of mini ranges in seperate directions, occasionaly some of those directions cross over parts of other mini ranges, but have big earthen hills and different elevations seperating them.
A scary place to say the least. Most of the time people arrange themselves so they are not pointing in the direction of other shooters even if they are behind such a hill, but every time a new arrival drives down the road and arrives you have to be concerned how they will set up. With steep canyons, bullet drop, richochets off rocks (heard quite a bit) it is a gamble each time you go. Absolute madness on the weekends.

Used to teach some NRA firearms classes but most people are not really trainable anymore. I still do the occasional one-on-one (for free, no less) but it's rare. Even so--I once spent some time working with a young man and thought I had gotten across to him. Then went out to the public range one day to find him shooting his shiny new Ruger P90. The part that really impressed me was when he twirled it. He didn't notice me. I just left.

There is a catch 22 with the enjoyment of arms. Many hobbies you can enjoy yourself and actualy benefit by limiting who you make aware of them, locations you enjoy etc.. It keeps the hobby limited to the few interested enough to learn it on thier own, and laws and regulations restricting, formaly structering, or banning your enjoyment are not quick to form to deal with numerous idiots.
Shooting however is different. The antis are always out in force trying to restrict and ban new things and you have to encourage the use of arms to encourage widespread acceptance and enjoyment of them so there is more opposition facing the antis. So you have to increase the number of idiots (and non idiots) with guns or have your own right lost as the antis gain ground facing limited opposition. It is really frustrating.

 

[Noxx]

The first time I took my brother in law to the range, he mentioned that he didn't normally care to use ear protection.

I let him fire my M44 before we got the pistols out. That was the end of that bit of stupidity.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

these range reports scare me abit. i have never been to a public or private range where there wasnt a range officer, or that before entering you are required to have and wear ear plugs or muffs. where are you people shooting? even the "desert shoots" that my friends and i have, we always have ear protection and never have had someone shoot when someone is downrange.

 

[Zoogster]

these range reports scare me abit. i have never been to a public or private range where there wasnt a range officer, or that before entering you are required to have and wear ear plugs or muffs. where are you people shooting? even the "desert shoots" that my friends and i have, we always have ear protection and never have had someone shoot when someone is downrange.

I would tell you, but then even more people will show up at them causing even more problems, or people will attempt to strictly regulate or close them down.

 

[JohnL2]

I guess I am lucky. I haven't witnessed too much stupidity at the gun range where I usually go.
I did have an experience the last time I went that just demonstrates human nature. Human nature versus discipline.

I was shooting my Dan Wesson 10mm at the pistol range. Another shooter set up in the next lane. He was waiting to put up his targets and then inquires what caliber I was shooting. I told him and he seemed to approve and just went back to pensively waiting. A moment passed by and I thought he may like to try my pistol.
I asked him, "Would you like to try?"
"Yeahhhh." he said with that long drawn out -eahhhhh, like I just asked him if he'd like to drive my new six-figure priced sports car. You should've seen the look on his face.
Anyway, he fired my pistol. But he forgot to put on his earmuffs. In his excitement he completely forgot to put them on. After the first shot he said he [expletive] his ears up because he forgot his muffs.
It's just human nature. That's why there must be discipline.
Reminds me of one of my favorite advertising lines, "Power is nothing without control."

 

[Geno]

What?! I can't hear you...I just came back from the range!!!

You would think people would know better.

Edit to clarify: When we go to the range, we wear earplugs AND headphones. I prefer to not even hear the report.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

not to be a "range snob" but have you ever wanted a range that was safe, yet you are able to do things like : moving and firing, penatration tests, ect? look up Ben Avery's web site here in AZ. they have ranges for that stuff, but they are hidden, so the novices cant find them. all the newbies or other unsafe ones see is the main range. almost no one travels down to the other ranges making them secluded, like you want, yet resonably safe. its a nice public set up. cheap too. under 18 is free all day.

 

[Andrewsky]

I used to go to the Rio Salado shooting range northeast of Mesa. That place is awesome. $6 a day per shooter, plus 4 range safety officers at all times. I felt very safe there.

Sometimes when I go shooting here in ND I wear an orange hunting vest. If I had a bulletproof vest I'd be wearing it.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I was shooting at a range today I was shooting a 7 MM Mag and the guy next to me was shooting a 375 H&H Mag. Two men walked up to the firing line and started to prep their target and I said range hot and pointed to my ear muffs. They gave me a deer in the headlights look and I said Range hot one more time. This time they were scrambling for ear plugs. It's your responsibility to come to a firing line (ear protected). I was thinking of not damaging their hearing and being courteous about it.
It is a two part responsibilty, some people just don't shoot frequently enough to not think twice about ear protection until their ears are ringing. Its The High Road to take to think about others.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

Andrewsky, that made me want to laugh, but some things just aint funny. i have never been to the rio range. i always go to Ben avery or Shooters world(when i wanna just do something different and rent a gun). and of course, the desert. prolly the most unsafe you can get in AZ without getting into a gunfight (or walking around the 50 yard mark on main range at Ben Avery).

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I always use a supervised, outdoor public range. They seem to have a lot of rules about what you can shoot where. (Such as, no centerfire rifles on the 25 yd. range unless you're sighting in, no handguns on the 50 yrd. range without the RO's say-so, etc) But, I haven't seen much range stupidity there, either. Give and take, I guess.

Would love to join a private club, but I have no idea where to find one around here.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

the midwest and east sound like no fun for guns. southwestern states seem to be pretty lax on gun laws and public ranges are not as restrictive as to what to shoot where. it brings the old time informality back to target shooting while being safe.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

t's part of the price of individual freedom; otherwise "there ought to be a law." Regulations, rules, statutes, etc.

You know, seat belts -for your good. Motorcycle helmets are mandatory, and that kind of thing.

I know you're making a quip, but kids don't know any better.

At the public range I frequent, Eyes and Ears are mandatory. If you don't wear them you're kicked out and that's the way it should be.

 

[TehK1w1]

Ditto for the range I go to, no eyes and ears, they let you borrow some from the range office with a deposit. If you don't want to use them, you are invited to leave. On a side note, I was shooting my colt .25acp at the range the other day and a guy showed up with his kid, a boy about 12-14. He gave the kid a cheap pair of earmuffs and had him sit on a bench to watch while the father proceeded to shoot several cylinders worth of full-house 357 mag downrange out of a ported snub-nose. The poor kid had his hands over his muffs by the third shot. What was worse was that when the father was done shooting, he had the kid come up to the bench and made him shoot it! Kid flinched so violently the round missed the target completely(at 7 yds). Dad berated him for some time about this, then finally said, "I guess I'll have to get a .22 to teach you how to shoot" Apparently the poor kid had never shot a handgun before, and Mr. Genius Dad thought that a 357 mag shooting 158gr+P rounds out of a 2" ported barrel was just the ticket! I left before I said something I would regret.

 

[Zoogster]

At the public range I frequent, Eyes and Ears are mandatory. If you don't wear them you're kicked out and that's the way it should be.

I disagree. I think it is smart and all shooters should be taught to use them. However I think letting people be stupid in ways that only put themselves at risk is a part of liberty and freedom.

Whether it is a helmet law, a seatbelt law, or anything similar, feeling you know what is best for other people and mandating it is the height of anti liberty.
Making it a requirement for people that are too young to make adult decisions is fine, making it a general requirement is just unAmerican.

That is why I choose to go to just such places yet at odd times to attempt to avoid the idiots. Nobody is going to tell me how to shoot, that I need 1 second delay between shots, or that I must stick to 2d paper targets. Tell me what I have to put on my eyes, what type of clothing I must wear, what words should come out of my mouth while I practice, what rate I should breathe at, that I need body armor or a helmet while shooting, that I must wear orange or pink, or anything else.

If someone else is not put in danger it really is no business of mine if they consider thier hearing less important than I do. It is thier ears and not bothering me. People need to learn to mind thier own business unless thier safety or rights (or a child's under an idiots care,) are being infringed upon.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

In the country we live in today I would not like to see ranges shut down by lawsuits due to morons who became injured, or their children for that matter, by not wearing eyes and ears. In the perfect world I would not care what anyone else does but I don't live there.

 

[geojap]

There was a guy 150 yards out posting targets. One of them fired his .22LR rifle downrange and the parent with them told him to be more careful.

That would be a whoopin down here.

 

[geojap]

It's worse when you go down range and set up your target to sight in and then somebody else starts shooting at it while you are setting up...

That would be another whoopin down here.

 

[jeepmor]

As I was sighting in the 300WSM the other day at an open range, I had a family stop by to allow their younger kids to shoot. I now bring as many extra earplugs as I can to share.

I stopped shooting to allow these folks to gear up before shooting themselves. I approached the Dad and said, "This is my hunting rifle and it's pretty darn loud, you don't want to be near it when it goes boom without protection." He agreed and they all piled back into the car to find somewhere else to shoot the BB gun and 22LR.

Seeing the disappointed look on the boy's face when they had to pack up made me resolve to bring plenty of hearing protection in the future. It broke my heart to be the reason a 10 year old did not get to pursue something that he was obviously very excited about doing. His handling of the BB gun illustrated good training and that he was thinking about what he was doing. He was very mindful of the muzzle, finger off the trigger and what not. Every "safe" handling technique was being practiced.

Had I brought enough earplugs, I could have shared this enthusiasm for firemarms. And the enthusiasm on the boy's face alone was enough that I would have offered to let him shoot a few rounds from my 223 just because I knew it would have made his week, maybe his summer.

I can't be responsible for others, but a pair of earplugs only sets me back a couple cartridges financially. So in the future, extra plugs will be standard range bag stock.