Ear Plugs: How the heck do folks shoot without em? History, etc.

[dubious]

How the heck do people shoot guns without ear plugs? What is the history of using them, especially in combat? Can you imagine training to be a rifleman without ear protection? I think I'd develop a ridiculous flinch! Just the thought makes me want to do more archery!

This question just keeps haunting me. On one thread here someone posted about their relative in ww2 who served on a battleship with those gigantic guns and no hearing protection.

Were people REALLY shooting guns before earplugs? I know I know, they were... of course... but I just want to make a definitive thread on the topic.

Now... I will listen to the gunnies...

 

[gotime242]

Ive always wondered this myself.

One gunshot at the range with me not having my ears on accidentally usually kills the rest of my day.

 

[jaysouth]

When the bullets are flying in your direction, such things don't matter much. You pretty much exclude the noise while concentrating on good protective cover and firing into your assigned sector of fire. That's on the ground. And always the first round/burst is much louder than the return fire. I remember one particular incident that stands out, when you empty a magazine, you stuff it inside your shirt after seating a fresh mag. There was small arms fire all over the place, grenades, return fire from rocket propelled grenades, machine guns, mortars and artillery rounds impacting. Total chaos. I was running to another position and remember hearing empty magzines clinking together inside my shirt so loudly that I was afraid the noise was going to draw enemy fire. At that moment the noise of the mags seemed louder than the battle swirling around me.

I also had the opportunity to fly a couple of days a week as a door gunner on a battalion command and control(the Battalion commander's "horse") UH-1D. While supporting an insertion of grunts. we would often fire "prep" on the LZ just before the troop slicks touched down. Some prep could involve hundreds of rounds. Without ear protection, the guns could hardly be heard above the turbine, rotors, and air stream.

Poor gunbunnies (artillery crews) seldom had ear protection and they fired thousands of rounds in the course of a year tour.

Thirty or forty years later, some people develop hearing problems, most do not.

It's always a good idea to wear eye and ear protection, but most people are tougher than the range nazi's at the average public shooting range carry on about.

If I were confronted by a life threatening situation, I would not stop for a second to worry about ear protection.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Could ya'll speak up a little?

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

WHAT???

I think there were a lot more hunters, sport shooters and military/police recruits that were hard of hearing.

 

[Pantaz]

I seldom wear hearing protection while plinking with .22s, so when I pick up something bigger... ouch!

 

[Nolo]

Y'know how electronic ears only impede your hearing when they hear a sharp, short, load noise? Well, your ears do that, too, but for the most part gunshots are out of their compensation range.
If any of you listen to music when you are on the 'Net, try turning it up to about twice what you usually set it on. It seems loud, no? Well, wait about fifteen minutes. It will not sound loud any more now that your ears have adjusted to the audio environment.
Ears will do that same in wartime. If gunshots are going on everywhere, your ears will turn their sensitivity down so that it doesn't sound nearly as bad. That does not mean, however, that firing an M60 right next to your ears is a good idea...
Sharp, singular gunshots, as heard on a firing range, damage the ears because they haven't adjusted to the noise and can't because it occurs withing such a short span of time.

 

[JohnKSa]

The adjustment happens in the brain. If the noise is sufficiently loud there's physical damage taking place inside the ears. As far as I know, there's no effective mechanism in the body to prevent that from happening.

Some people are more resistant to it than others, but exposure to loud noises or constant loud noise will damage one's hearing. The effect is cumulative, the more you're exposed, the worse your hearing becomes.

 

[jmr40]

I'm 50 and cannot ever remember wearing ear protection until I was about 30 or so. I still never wear any when hunting and I never notice the sound of the gun when shooting at animals. I do have a very slight hearing loss in my left ear which is supposedly caused from shooting. It only affects tones in ranges that do not show up in normal everyday life so I have been very lucky I guess.

My dad is 85 and served in WW-2. I do not think he has ever worn any type of ear protection. He has some hearing loss, but is not bad for his age. I realize we have both been lucky and I do not reccomend others shoot without hearing protection.

 

[bogie]

Well... I know shooters who have been involved in competition since the 1950s. Yup. That long.

And to a man, the most used word is "Huh?"

To all you 18-20 year olds out there... You're real men, right? You don't need to worry about hearing loss, right? Heck, you're going to be 18 years old forever, right?

Wrong.

It's cumulative. And it does not go away (or come back, relative to how you're thinking about it).

I wear plugs and muffs when I'm on a firing line.

 

[Matt304]

A lot of people get old and lose their hearing, and blame it on firearms. Who knows if firearms really caused it like they believe. My guess is, a lot of those people would still be hard of hearing if they had never heard a gunshot in their life.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I shot one round of .22LR a few months ago in the middle of the grasslands just to see how loud it was without plugs. It was still painful. No thanks.

Having spent years as a guitar player in bands, I have some occasional ringing, but it starts suddenly, then goes away, usually not longer than a few minutes, although I may just 'get used to it' before it acually subsides.

Anyway, I'll keep all the hearing I can get. Unlike Bogie, I've noticed it's usually the older guys that are more stubborn about protecting their hearing. They're the only ones to whom I've ever had to say "No, I insist."

 

[WNTFW]

I have a friend in charge of some artillery. He told me you can alway tell who's artillery. "They always have the earplugs with them". Of course that is the present.

I was wondering how they did it in the past. I'm sure the noise had an effect. Even if it was just increased fatigue at the bare minimum.

I don't even shoot .22 without hearing protection. I prefer ear muffs to cover the bones behind the earlobes as they pick up sound. Muffs & plugs is my usual. I often shoot indoor, under a roof or even in a borrow pit.

I also have been around 15 Garands firing at once. The backstop berm did a great job or redirecting the noise back.

 

[cliffy]

Ear Plugs vs Ear Muffs

Don't like shoving stuff into my ear canals. Ear muffs work just fine. For about $15, one can preserve one's hearing. Listening to booming bass in one's car requires shooter's ear muffs. Damaging one's ear drums is not a good thing. 82 decibals is LOUD, but a .243 Winchester report is louder . . . huh? Yea, a .22 LR rifle ain't too bad, but a .22 LR pistol is bad. Hunting with ear muffs is not common enough yet, but one ringing round will produce a believer. Please don't try to make this into law! We have FAR TOO many laws already. cliffy

 

[Zedo]

Never used any ear protection in the military -- 1966 to 1970. None whatever.

You can't use it in combat zones because you need to hear what's going on, who's sneaking up on you.

I worked in medical records in the Veterans Admin while going to school. Most veterans with a service connected claim have hearing loss and tinnitus (ringing ears).

I have high-freq. hearing lose and tinnitus, about 80 decible high frequency ringing according to the VA.

Military now uses a "hearing preservation program" during training. Combat situations call for unimpeded hearing -- and vets lose hearing as a result of combat duty. Service connected, generally at about 10%.


Never used hearing protection while shooting until "recently" -- like about 1986.

Just for the record, "ear plugs" don't protect from the bone conduction of gunfire that travels through the skull and into the ear. You want to use "muffs" which cover the exterior of the ear and skull.

 

[Zach S]

If someone is firing in my direction, I think my hearing would be pretty close to the bottom of my list of stuff to worry about.

I have fired an AR15 and a 12 gauge inside a mobile home that was about to be demolished, and the AR wasnt as bad as I thought it would be. Just soinded like a little pop, with a touch of dialtone afterwards. I could still hear normal conversation. The shotgun, eh, just got a dialtone. Couldnt hear anything else.

But other than those occasions, I wear earplugs religously. Habit form working in loud environments where its required. When at an idoor range, I double up with muffs occasionaly. Depends on if someone is there shooting a magnum.

 

[harmonic]

I seldom wear hearing protection while plinking with .22s

Not smart.

Facts on noise levels:

Decibels measure sound pressure and are logarithmic. That means that only a 3db increase almost doubles sound pressure, a 6db increase quadruples sound pressure, etc.

Gradual hearing loss may occur after prolonged exposure to 90 decibels or above.

Exposure to 100 decibels for more than 15 minutes can cause hearing loss.

Exposure to 110 decibels for more than a minute can cause permanent hearing loss.

Damage to hearing can occur when the ears are exposed to sustained levels of sound over 120dB.

At 140 dBA noise causes immediate injury to almost any unprotected ear.

There is also the more extreme ‘acoustic trauma’, which is an immediate loss of hearing after a sudden, exceptionally loud noise such as an explosion.

Here are noise levels of firearms:
.22 caliber rifle 130dB
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18" barrel 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB.
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB.
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB.
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB. In 18" barrel 163.2dB.
.375 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB.
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB. 26" barrel 150.25dB. 18" barrel 156.30dB.
20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB. 22" barrel 154.75dB.
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB. 26" barrel 156.10dB. 18" barrel 161.50dB.
.25 ACP 155.0 dB.
.32 LONG 152.4 dB.
.32 ACP 153.5 dB.
.380 157.7 dB.
9mm 159.8 dB.
.38 S&W 153.5 dB.
.38 Spl 156.3 dB.
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB.
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB.
.44 Spl 155.9 dB.
.45 ACP 157.0 dB.
.45 COLT 154.7 dB.

Factoid

Properly fitted earplugs or muffs reduce noise 15 to 30 dB. The better earplugs and muffs are approximately equal in sound reductions, although earplugs are better for low frequency noise and earmuffs for high frequency noise.

Using muffs and plugs together: Take the higher of the two and add 5 dB. 30 plug with 20 muff gives an effective NRR of 35.

 

[Speedo66]

When I first started as a peace officer in 1969, we used cigarette filters as sound protection at the range. That's what was recommended by the range officers.

Now I double plugs and muffs with any caliber, but the damage is done. I don't think basic training with M-14s, grenades, and TNT packs going off on the infiltration course helped either.

I also use, and recommend, plugs while riding on motorcycles. The air passing by your ears at highway (and supra highway) speeds does damage. It's cumulative, but it's happening.

 

[BruceRDucer]

I might have a partial hearing impairment related to Marine Corps training and service in South Vietnam.

Sometimes, my wife wants me to turn the TV down, but I don't think anything really serious impairs my hearing.

By comparison, some people with the booming car stereos on MegaWattage are definitely going to have impairment.

Practicing, we use the big padded ear muffs, but hunting....

"I love the sound of guns in the morning. That sound, you know that sound. It sounds like....like VICTORY!"




/

 

[mainmech48]

JohnSKa and harmonic are giving you the straight skinny: The damage is real, cumulative and permanent. The most annoying symptom is tinnitus. Your ears "ring" all of the time and that noise interfers with most all other sounds, especially speech at "normal" volume levels and most markedly in situations where multiple conversations are going on around you.

Matt, you may have a point. The noise exposure levels over the years from other "normal" activities like working with or around industrial and other machinery, riding motorcycles, highway cruising with the all the windows down, rock concerts and rowdy parties - even daily exposure to the street-level din of living and working in a large city likely contribute more damage than gunfire.

But for one reason or another the gun firing parts tend to stand out more. Sometimes because we got exposed to a lot of it by choice, sometimes because we didn't have one.

 

[Armed 24/7]

I am 28 and have tinnitus. It is real, believe me. Use Plugs and Muffs while shooting. I worked at the airport for eight years around all that high frequency noise, and I am paying for it every day for the rest of my life...

 

[LaVere]

In 1964 US ARMY basic training using M-14 no one used or had hearing protection. It just was not thought about. I had a hearing test about a month ago. My hearing is well with in the normal range and I'm 66. I of course wear since then at anyplace of hi noise dB. I keep a two pair in the car 24/7 just in case. When my wife and I go to the local auto races we both wear hearing protection. The first year we got real strange look from a lot of fans. Last week when we went. I now see a lot of people using plugs and some of the cheap big muffs. I use the Dave Clark big green things they cover the whole ear and only $36.00

 

[LaVere]

In 1964 US ARMY basic training using M-14 no one used or had hearing protection. I just was not thought about. I had a hearing test about a month ago. My hearing is well with in the normal range and I'm 66. I of course wear since then at anyplace of hi noise dB. I keen a two pair in the car 24/7 just in case. When my wife and I go to the local auto races we both wear hearing protection. I use the Dave Clark big green things they cover the whole ear and only $36.00

 

[jaysouth]

Plugs work well but the docs now think that shock waves transmitted through the mastoid bone damages hearing as well.

If that is the case, you would be better off with muffs and plugs.

I have some of the electronic jobs but they don't block as much noise as the non electronic muffs.

 

[Bighouse Doc]

You don't get used to loud noise. You simply go deaf.

Your ear does not discriminate between loud music or gunfire. It simply detects sound pressure.

The damage to the cochlear fibers(they break off) is cumulative and permanent!