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What to add to 1100 youth for HD

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by FunGunner, Apr 7, 2005.

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  1. FunGunner

    FunGunner Member

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    I've been looking to contract out over seas and was thinking of leaving the wife with an 1100/11-87 youth for HD. We talked it over and she tried out a 870 youth and said the recoil wasn't bad at all, and then issued me a mandate to find her a "shotgun to mow down bad guys withâ€. Problem is I have looked at all the stuff for HD shotguns and not being big with the shotty myself I’m not sure if I should get fancy doodads for it, or leave it be with the 4+1 and bead.


    On an upside she seems enthused about going to a tac shotgun class now. She said she wants a shotgun that she can grab, rack, and boom, and have everything she needs on it.:uhoh:

    I think I’ve created a monster by mistake.

    Any advice will be welcomed
    I
     
  2. TrapperReady

    TrapperReady Member

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    My advice would be to use it pretty much stock. Adjust the fit as needed, and perhaps a premium (Pachmyr Decelerator or Kick-Eez) recoil pad, and that's about it. For HD distances, a bead is fine.

    I'm of the opinion that one should become proficient with a basic (ie. stock) firearm, and THEN see about adding doohickeys. Shoot it enough to become comfortable, identify the areas in which it is deficient (if any) and then apply and test add-ons which address those deficiencies. This should be the same formula whether you are talking about shotguns for HD, breaking clay targets, hunting, or even rifle and pistol equivalents.

    Just remember, in a HD application, reliability and ease of operator use are the two biggest factors... pretty much in that order. An array of bolt-on equipment MAY be useful in certain situations, but if you plan to use them, you better train and train hard with them.
     
  3. Black Majik

    Black Majik Member

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    I think the only thing a HD shotgun needs is a extended magazine tube. Extra shells in the shotgun never hurts and the weight is minimal.

    Keep the standard stock and forearm and BA/UU/R.
     
  4. Matt-man

    Matt-man Member

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    I once took a shotgun class and there was a petite young lady also participating. The lady's shotgun, set up by her dad, was a 20" 870 with a 2-round extension and a 6-round sidesaddle. Over the course of the 2-day course it was evident that she was having trouble with the weight of the gun - even holding the muzzle up on target was tough for her. Keep the overall weight in mind if you're going to add accessories. Consider a 1-round instead of a 2-round extension, 4-round instead of 6-round sidesaddle, and if you have a choice use the shorter barrel.
     
  5. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Hi-Viz Sight

    One item I use is a magnetic Hi-Viz fiber optic glow dot sight that comes with different colored glow dots. Once on, it really stays put but can be easily removed and really increases visibility for quick reaction shooting. Around $20.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2005
  6. FunGunner

    FunGunner Member

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    Gotcha! ;) Reliability, ease of operation, extra shell/s, lighter weight, and better sights.

    Well if the 1100/11-87 don't work out reliability wise, then I know that the 870 youth will work. I just talked to her about this thread and she's pretty sure that she wants a extra shell or two in the mag. That and she want's the stocks to be a bright blue with a green high viz front for busting clays. I can see her looking for a matching range bag right now.:rolleyes:



    Thanks guys
     
  7. marklbucla

    marklbucla Member

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    Would all that extra weight be noticeable in a quick, fight or flight situation?

    I'm looking to trick out an 1100 also at this time. So far, I got the Speedfeed youth stock, a 22" barrel, and will probably add a Choate Mag extension.
     
  8. Matt-man

    Matt-man Member

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    Probably not, but if she is interested in a combat shotgun course, these guns can get real heavy when you're shooting them all day for a couple of days. There is the possibility of taking stuff off for the course and putting it back on, but I would want the gun in the same condition it would be in if I had to use it in the real world. "Train like you fight," and all that.
     
  9. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    I strongly recommend she practice at home, mounting the shotgun 25 times or more 4-7 days a week before attending the course. This will tone up the mucles and ease the introduction into shooting shotguns.

    I also recommend the course. Good move.

    Bookmark the 101 threads here also. She'll find it's a fast reference to all things shotgun for beginners.

    HTH....
     
  10. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    For a true HD gun simpler is better. Self defense is not a game like 3- gun matches, there are no second chances. If self defense is the issue the gun should be kept simple, stone reliable and USED AS IS in gaming or training. The issue is the skill set of the operator, not the stuff bolted on the gun.

    I have found 1100s reliable enough for HD as long as they are properly maintained. That can be a big caveat, pay attention to the manual and to reassembly after cleaning or the gun will not run. Pumps generally run as long as the operator maintains proper operator headspace and timing and doesn't short-stroke, load shells backwards etc. If recoil is not an issue the pump is a definite contender, the choice is the shooter's.

    The youth model synthetic 1100 20 ga. is pretty light, haven't had hands on the wood stocked model. Keep in mind there are fewer choices for HD loads in 20 ga. than in 12, I don't know of any reduced recoil buck and slug loads for the 20 as yet- someone please correct me if I am wrong about that. With a lightweight gun and full house loads recoil is apt to be more not less, it could be a 12 with reduced recoil loads might work just as well. Try the options and see what works, that's the best way to make a decision.

    As to gun mods/accessories, I would first make sure the gun fits the shooter properly no matter the gauge or action type. Stock length is critical, usually drop and cast is not so much a problem. Curves in factory pistol grips are often too deep for small hands, make sure the trigger finger can reach while the rest of the hand can maintain a strong grip on the stock. The area can be built up as needed and relieved for proper grip. It won't be pretty but if you are going to paint it blue anyway no one will notice.

    Keeping weight off the front of the gun is a big factor with smaller shooters. Consider doing without a mag extension or keeping it as short as possible if she's just gotta gotta have one. A SideSaddle puts weight between the hands and seems not to be as noticeable as more weight out front. There are 4- round versions available now that are even lighter when loaded, I really like having extra ammo on the gun no matter how it is carried, and like SideSaddles best among the available options.

    Shorter shooters have shorter arms, make sure the fore-end is where it can be reached without hyper-extending the support arm. Also make sure it can be grasped easily, it might need shaving down to provide a good grip.

    Sights are an either/or on a HD gun, unless the fight might go outside. For a genuine house gun a tritium bead will suffice IMO.

    A white light source can be helpful, but shouldn't require a massive overhaul of the gun. With properly set up house lighting and a barricaded defensive position any intruder will be a target silhouetted in a backlit doorway, searches to ferret out genuine intruder noises are generally a poor idea IMO.

    As far as the gun is concerned reliability is the utmost concern, for the shooter developing a solid skillset covering the basics is crucial. That requires lots of hands- on and trigger time, putting lead down range and on target is the key. Not much else makes any difference...

    hth,

    lpl/nc
     
  11. SapperLeader

    SapperLeader Member

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    If she liked the 870 youth, but doesnt want a pump, the 1100 would probally fit the bill. Id keep it simple though, make sure the stock fits her, paint the front sight a bright color she can see easily and get a white light on it.

    If its a 1100 you might not need a surefire weaponlight, some of the improvised lights seem to do well on semis(m3, or someother rigged light system). Lees idea for a 4 round side saddle sounds good to keep weight down, and if she doesnt mind the muzzle heaviness, a extension. Id be inclined to either run it with no extension, or maybe a +1 to leave room for shell selection. If she is having issues with muzzle fatigue, a sling might help put some of the weight off off her arms.


    Glad to hear your wife is joining the ranks of shotgunners, let us know how she likes the gun, and whatever course she takes.
     
  12. s&w 24

    s&w 24 Member

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    1) Proper stock fit
    2) sling
    3) 4 shot side saddle
    4) white light if think you need one
     
  13. Clemson

    Clemson Member

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    S&W 24:

    Just curious -- why put a sling on a home defense gun???

    Clemson
     
  14. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    My $0.02.....

    The 20 gauge YE here kicks severely with Remington #3 buck loads. That's with either the 20" RS/IC or the 21" Remchoked vent rib barrel. The buck loads are 2 3/4". From the Rifle Sighted barrel, spread at 25 yards was 28", IIRC.

    The stock is (Right hand weaving side to side indicating close enough) suitable for folks at least 5 feet tall. Bigger folks can use it, but it's definitely too short for big ol' me. I can still shoot it, but getting my eye in the right place gives me Quasimodo's hump. Real tiring real quick.

    Otherwise, the 870 YE or its 1100 sibling in the YE or Special Field variants make a fine defensive tool in practiced hands. The 1100 is more soft kicking, but the tradeoff is another 4-5 oz towards the muzzle. For folks with short arms(No snickering, you Navy types), the extra weight adds up to more fatigue and discomfort..

    Those three words, in practiced hands, are important. Most hardware is capable of handling most crises for civilians. The Mil-Spec stuff is nice, but not as essential as KNOWING your weapon.

    Our YE here is not a first line defense tool. If needed, I could do a fair country job with it and selected ammunition, including some of that 3 buck. 20 ga Brenekke slugs, which do kick, are very effective on deer sized game.

    Starting a new shooter off with light loads is a good idea anytime. With the YE, a very good idea.

    HTH.....
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2005
  15. sm

    sm member

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    1100 20 ga.

    One of the best kept secrets - Period.

    Be it HD , hunting, or clay games. A bone stock 1100 in 20 ga with ammo for task will do the task.

    The shooter must ALWAYS do their part - one cannot buy skill and targets.

    I know too many folks with a 1100 20ga fixed choked Skeet bbl - that know how to run the gun. Ditto with a IC. With a factory 26" bb 'cause that is the length the SK and IC came in before screw in chokes.

    25 repetitions a day then work up to 100. Start with light loads, patterning, learning to run to gun and keep it feed.

    Amazing how profficient , smooth and then fast a shooter can effectivlely use a 1100 20 ga skeet gun with 26" bbl from low gun . Amazing what they can do shooting from weak side as well.



    ATF keeps a 1100 running.
     
  16. scout26

    scout26 Member

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    Lots o' ammo and practice.
     
  17. FunGunner

    FunGunner Member

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    Just got back from the In-laws after a day of clays, and I have to say that the little lady with the 1100 YE (a loaner) is a wonder indeed (must get it from her Pop). She was good to go for about the first 20 throws and then needed a break, due to tired arms. Her 17 out of 20 ani't nothing to snicker at , with me pulling in 19 out of 30, and Pops pounding out a 30 of 30 to show hows it's done (with a bolt gun no less). I don't know if the clay busting is going to stick, but the 1100 YE as stock is more than fine for her to work with.

    She did try shooting one Remington Express 2 3/4" #3, one Federal power shok 3 buck, and one Winchester Super-X #3 , commenting that she didn't want to shoot them all day long, but could shoot several with no problems. And yes those loads hurt after touching a few off.

    She has been looking at doodads over the past day or two and the only one she mentioned was the side saddle, just for extra ammo on the gun.

    I guess that if she does go to a shotgun class, I'll have to get someone to cook up a load for her to get the job done without beating the crap out of her.

    Thanks again gents
     
  18. s&w 24

    s&w 24 Member

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    clemson

    if for some reason you need two hands for something you don't have to put you gun down. Also I believe a shotgun class was mentioned, If you take a class you'll need the sling for saftey reasons.
     
  19. Clemson

    Clemson Member

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    Cool! Learn something new every day. I have never taken a tactical shotgun course.

    Clemson
     
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