what to choose?
- Thread starter Bezoar
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dwave
Member
Well, in that case, I would want a Ruger Old Army.
KevininPa
Member
Sometimes the prices of used ROAs aren't bad on Gunbroker. Could have it mailed to your door, provided your laws allow that without a FFL. I got my stainless one for $325 with shipping. The blued ones could be had cheaper.
bigbadgun
Member
Pancho I only use BP weapons anymore I have modern but i figure like this it worked for them boys way back when. Good enough for them good enough for me. And yes I would take my trusty Walker no doubt about it.
bezoar - that's not correct. You can carry a sidearm in the woods without a CCW in Michigan. You must have a valid hunting license, however, and the sidearm must conform to the hunting regulations for the season as to caliber. It must not be concealed, although the DNR folks are pretty liberal about it being in a holster under hunting clothing (the local sheriff or city cops might not be, however). The only issue is transporting the sidearm to and from the field without a CPL (CCW in other states); it must be unloaded and locked in a case inaccessible to the driver or other occupants and ammunition must be in a separate container outside the one containing the sidearm.
See this link from the FAQ's on the MSP site:
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,...-,00.html#Concealed_Weapons__Non_CPL_Holders_
See this link from the FAQ's on the MSP site:
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,...-,00.html#Concealed_Weapons__Non_CPL_Holders_
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planetmobius
Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2007
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- 389
In Wisconsin we don't have a lot of cats but the DNR has insured that the bears are plentiful and seem to be air dropping the wolves in by the pack. I hear them howling every night on the banks of the Wolf River. For the past few years, durring bow and BP season, I've been packing a S&W 29 mountain gun with a 4" tube. Its a little lighter thant the standard 29 and has plenty of zap to dispatch whatever vermin you might run across. Although, I would have no reservations repacing this with a good .357 if i had to. I've been carrying it in a Grizzly Tuff shoulder rig and find that it distributes the weight very well and keeps the gun out of your way. They have lots of anchor points that can be used and are adjustable enought to go over or under your jacket depending on your inclination. I agree with those that are telling you to go with a high powered moden weapon for self defense. It's good to stay true to our sport, but if your butt is on the line, its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Choices
Good info here so far, just adding my opinions.
I like big bore for anything that is big enough to cause me concern for physical safety. I do carry a .38 caliber revolver alot (both snubbie Special and full size Magnum), but when going out thinking that I could run across a critter with sharp teeth and claws, or snakes (with or without legs) I generally like to have something with a minimum bore size of .44 caliber. Start big, end big.
Carry what is comfortable and familiar to you. A sidearm should melt into your hand, point naturally, and be manipulated without much thought. You will be working off instinct and adrenaline if you have any time to react to the threat. I carry cartridge single action pistols alot when going out of doors, either my .44 Magnum Bisley Vaquero (5 1/2" barrel) or my .45 Colt Uberti Cattleman (4 3/4" barrel). Both are reasonably quick to get into action and will make a big hole in whatever it barks at.
Choose a heavy bullet for reliable penetration and choose a load that is not too difficult to control, then practice, practice, practice. You fight as you train. Make sure your carry rig will work when you need it, under the conditions you could face out in the field.
In summary, your choice should be something in which you have a high level of confidence, you are intimately familiar with, and will absolutely go "Bang!!" when you need it to.
Depcon
Good info here so far, just adding my opinions.
I like big bore for anything that is big enough to cause me concern for physical safety. I do carry a .38 caliber revolver alot (both snubbie Special and full size Magnum), but when going out thinking that I could run across a critter with sharp teeth and claws, or snakes (with or without legs) I generally like to have something with a minimum bore size of .44 caliber. Start big, end big.
Carry what is comfortable and familiar to you. A sidearm should melt into your hand, point naturally, and be manipulated without much thought. You will be working off instinct and adrenaline if you have any time to react to the threat. I carry cartridge single action pistols alot when going out of doors, either my .44 Magnum Bisley Vaquero (5 1/2" barrel) or my .45 Colt Uberti Cattleman (4 3/4" barrel). Both are reasonably quick to get into action and will make a big hole in whatever it barks at.
Choose a heavy bullet for reliable penetration and choose a load that is not too difficult to control, then practice, practice, practice. You fight as you train. Make sure your carry rig will work when you need it, under the conditions you could face out in the field.
In summary, your choice should be something in which you have a high level of confidence, you are intimately familiar with, and will absolutely go "Bang!!" when you need it to.
Depcon
classicballistx
Member
The BP Choice
You can be guided by a lot of factors in choosing a sidearm for field situations. Your choice will necessarily be compromised.
Unless factors relating to cosmetic authenticity enter into the matter, and assuming your decision matrix requires a non-cartridge gun, there is no reason to carry/shoot anything other than a Ruger Old Army. Otherwise, unless you are unwilling to learn a very simple discipline, the ROA offers a number of substantive advantages over any cartridge gun.
The ROA can be made as compact as any big frame double-action for convenience of carry. It is as reliable as any cartridge revolver and more accurate than all but a very few. Properly loaded, it delivers ballistics with greater capacity to kill game than the .45LC.
If you need more than the foregoing, you need more than a revolver of any kind.
The paper discussions of what will do what sort of fade away in real world circumstances. Proficiency favors dealing effectively with a very large percentage of those circumstances and few revolvers afford the ease of attaining proficiency with the same gun you'll carry as does the ROA. Others require adapters of one sort or another. Others wear parts out or wear out altogether after a few thousand rounds. The ROA takes all that in stride and ten-thousand rounds (hunting, target, and practice) later, it will still be shooting with the original pieces. We’d be pleased to show you one, and we’re definitely not Sturm, Ruger & Co.
Bottom line, choose by your own well informed standard. Account for every element in that matrix, and your choice won't be a bad one. If your matrix is sufficiently objective, the ROA will be a very plausible consideration. Choose otherwise by direct comparison and you’ve done so for good, subjective reason.
ROA’s are a way of life.
Wisent
Classicballistx
You can be guided by a lot of factors in choosing a sidearm for field situations. Your choice will necessarily be compromised.
Unless factors relating to cosmetic authenticity enter into the matter, and assuming your decision matrix requires a non-cartridge gun, there is no reason to carry/shoot anything other than a Ruger Old Army. Otherwise, unless you are unwilling to learn a very simple discipline, the ROA offers a number of substantive advantages over any cartridge gun.
The ROA can be made as compact as any big frame double-action for convenience of carry. It is as reliable as any cartridge revolver and more accurate than all but a very few. Properly loaded, it delivers ballistics with greater capacity to kill game than the .45LC.
If you need more than the foregoing, you need more than a revolver of any kind.
The paper discussions of what will do what sort of fade away in real world circumstances. Proficiency favors dealing effectively with a very large percentage of those circumstances and few revolvers afford the ease of attaining proficiency with the same gun you'll carry as does the ROA. Others require adapters of one sort or another. Others wear parts out or wear out altogether after a few thousand rounds. The ROA takes all that in stride and ten-thousand rounds (hunting, target, and practice) later, it will still be shooting with the original pieces. We’d be pleased to show you one, and we’re definitely not Sturm, Ruger & Co.
Bottom line, choose by your own well informed standard. Account for every element in that matrix, and your choice won't be a bad one. If your matrix is sufficiently objective, the ROA will be a very plausible consideration. Choose otherwise by direct comparison and you’ve done so for good, subjective reason.
ROA’s are a way of life.
Wisent
Classicballistx
bigbadgun
Member
The ROA is a far superior gun however for some the cost of even a second hand Rugar are far more than can be afforded. For the cost of a new ROA I can buy 2 Remmies and a colt.
bigbadgun - remember, he's concerned about significant predators, possibly black bear. Are you advising him to buy three guns that might do the job instead of one that will? Is the idea that he can carry all 3 and empty them at the predator? Would you really rather face a black bear with 3 Remmies instead of an ROA or .357 Blackhawk?
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Roswell 1847
member
You know something the Leather holster I got at Lowes to carry my electric screwdriver while putting up fence panels fits a Colt walker pretty good. I think I paid $8 for it.
The Walker or Dragoon will do for Black Bear but a large Brown Bear is a tough customer, even a .357 would be too light for certainity.
Black Bear, even the biggest , are unlikely to attack an armed man. The Black Bear attacks I've heard of involved sleeping campers, usually the Bear being drawn by the odor of Menstrual blood which made the Bear think the Female camper was already dead or dying.
Twice Black Bear have made a run at me, both times while I was trying to get a photo of them feeding on refuse. Once because a dumb kid followed me into the brush and threw a watermelon rind that hit the Bear (largests Blackie I've seen, well over three hundred pounds) in the face and the Bear apparently thought I threw it.
The other time a small adult Bear had his head and shoulders in a trash can and when he looked up and saw me it startled him.
Their tempers are short but they cool down almost instantly unless battle is joined immediately. If battle is joined with a single foe they fight like lions till they die, but if escape presents itself they will usually flee a dog pack.
Black bear sucumb quickly to even pocket pistol calibers if you center the chest. A friend's Granpa killed dozens with one shot each from a .32 S&W.
The Granpa was a career LEO though, an expert marksman, and cold as the snow.
The Cherokee thought is was dishonorable to use any weapon other than a club to kill Black Bear, and would formally apologize to the Bear before killing it, around here we call the Black Bear a Cow with Claws.
bigbadgun
Member
Nope sure aint mykeal. Im just stateing fact. I would carry my Walker and I would feel very safe at that I am just saying that Rugars a re a great pistol but hell I cant afford one thats why I take my Walker when ever I go out in the back country. Just for that reason but i also take my 1851 Navy in .44 cal its for varmits.My Walker is just as powerful as a .357mag thats why I carry it. All I am saying is that a Rugar is a very expensive gun. Grant it I beleive it is well worth it but I cant afford one. DOnt get me wrong I think they are a great gun all I am saying is the cost it may not apply to everyones wallet. And I would never suggest to anybody something that could possibly get them hurt or even dead.
Bigbadgun - Apologies. I misunderstood your meaning. Thanks for helping me understand.
Roswell 1847 - Bezoar will not encounter any brown bear in Michigan. Our largest carnivore is the black bear, and yes, they are shy with regard to humans. Most likely encounters would be with coyote, fox, bobcat and some feral swine; in the fall I've come upon male badgers who exhibited aggressive behavior. We do have a growing population of gray wolf and there are the legendary cougars (which I believe despite the DNR's assurances they don't exist here).
Roswell 1847 - Bezoar will not encounter any brown bear in Michigan. Our largest carnivore is the black bear, and yes, they are shy with regard to humans. Most likely encounters would be with coyote, fox, bobcat and some feral swine; in the fall I've come upon male badgers who exhibited aggressive behavior. We do have a growing population of gray wolf and there are the legendary cougars (which I believe despite the DNR's assurances they don't exist here).
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The ROA is a fine built gun that can be loaded pretty hot. But the thing is, its well beyond my budget. For the cost of a new ROA I can get a few months worth of car insurance, or a brand new 44 magnum or 41 from Taurus or an older SW model and have a few pennies left over for some ammunition.
im leaning on bp as its legal in bp and rifle season here in michigan. and im tired of getting guns I dont have the know how to repair. Face it, its easier to work on a bp revolver then a 63 year old rifle you can barelyget parts for if you screw up cleaning it.
As it is, ill probablyhave to sell off that 63 year old rifle to get it sadly. Life just screws with you no matter what you try to do with it.
im leaning on bp as its legal in bp and rifle season here in michigan. and im tired of getting guns I dont have the know how to repair. Face it, its easier to work on a bp revolver then a 63 year old rifle you can barelyget parts for if you screw up cleaning it.
As it is, ill probablyhave to sell off that 63 year old rifle to get it sadly. Life just screws with you no matter what you try to do with it.
dwave
Member
Well, I guess as a cheaper alt. an 1858 clone can be loaded pretty heavy too, near 40 grs. BP.
Everything's a compromise of some sort. An 1858 loaded to 40 gr is less expensive and easier to maintain than an ROA, but it's also less accurate at that heavier load, needs the greater maintenance and is less reliable over the long run. A Dragoon or Walker would be a better choice for the heavy load accuracy and they'd be just as simple to maintain as the 1858, but still not as reliable over time.
I'm not saying don't get an 1858 or a Walker or a Dragoon. Just be aware of the compromises. They matter if it's coming for you.
I'm not saying don't get an 1858 or a Walker or a Dragoon. Just be aware of the compromises. They matter if it's coming for you.
bigbadgun
Member
Mykeal let me ask you this how is a Walker or a Dragoon or 1858 not reliable?
Pancho
Member
This has been a great thread to read but as I reread Bezoar's original thread I get the idea that his dilemma is immediate as in this season and he doesn't have a lot of money to throw around. If that is the case I'd Borrow the biggest gun I could borrow and use it this season for protection and save my money over the winter buy a Ruger Old Army and shoot the heck out of it over the Spring and Summer to gain confidence in yourself and the pistol.
Bigbadgun has had to shoot his Walker a lot to have the confidence that he has in it and I would want to do the same if my butt was on the line.
Bigbadgun has had to shoot his Walker a lot to have the confidence that he has in it and I would want to do the same if my butt was on the line.
.44walkersabot
member
Well, let me jump in here since I'm just drinking coffee and eating pork and beans right now.
I have never heard of a mainspring breaking on a Ruger handgun BUT I have never heard of one breaking on a Walker either. And if a mainspring DID break on a Walker I daresay the Walker wasn't made by Uberti.
I was talking to a woman on the phone just the other day. She work's at Cabela's and does a lot of shooting where they do all this cowboy action or something like that. I talked to her for a good while. She told me (among many other things) that these guns get a hell of a workout. She told me not to pay much attention to what I read on this computer, because she know's for a fact that lot's of these people use The Remington .44 made by Pietta and very very seldom does one of the guns ever break or mal-function, unless one just maybe slipped through the inspection process which could happen to anything from a car to a Kaybar knife.
She told me she still couldn't understand why people were so determined to keep referring to them as replica's and knockoffs, since Colt and Remington both used some of the fine Old World gunmakers located in Italy to help them along with the manufacture and production
of their firearms.
She also told me that Uberti has always had a better name than Pietta as far as dependability went, but that Pietta today was just as good (as a whole) as any gun you could buy. It just all depend's on what model and style one perfers. She told me that when one paid $600.00 or more for a Ruger they were buying the name. That the $600.00 Ruger wouldn't handle or shoot one damn bit better than the Pietta or Uberti models. That if the gun wouldn't hit the target, somebody need's to check the shooter, not the gun.
Now, I hasten to add here that I don't know if all of that is correct or not. I DO know one thing. I have shot the living hell out of a Uberti Walker and a Uberti 1849 Colt Pocket .31 when it's all added together over the years and I have not experienced any problems. If I had then I would tell ya'll. Can't speak right now for the Uberti carbine except to say that so far it is performing flawlessly and true to the mark.
I do know of one man who had a broken main spring in Alaska (like to cost him his life) but that was a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum, Model 29.Well, anyway...Okay...
I have never heard of a mainspring breaking on a Ruger handgun BUT I have never heard of one breaking on a Walker either. And if a mainspring DID break on a Walker I daresay the Walker wasn't made by Uberti.
I was talking to a woman on the phone just the other day. She work's at Cabela's and does a lot of shooting where they do all this cowboy action or something like that. I talked to her for a good while. She told me (among many other things) that these guns get a hell of a workout. She told me not to pay much attention to what I read on this computer, because she know's for a fact that lot's of these people use The Remington .44 made by Pietta and very very seldom does one of the guns ever break or mal-function, unless one just maybe slipped through the inspection process which could happen to anything from a car to a Kaybar knife.
She told me she still couldn't understand why people were so determined to keep referring to them as replica's and knockoffs, since Colt and Remington both used some of the fine Old World gunmakers located in Italy to help them along with the manufacture and production
of their firearms.
She also told me that Uberti has always had a better name than Pietta as far as dependability went, but that Pietta today was just as good (as a whole) as any gun you could buy. It just all depend's on what model and style one perfers. She told me that when one paid $600.00 or more for a Ruger they were buying the name. That the $600.00 Ruger wouldn't handle or shoot one damn bit better than the Pietta or Uberti models. That if the gun wouldn't hit the target, somebody need's to check the shooter, not the gun.
Now, I hasten to add here that I don't know if all of that is correct or not. I DO know one thing. I have shot the living hell out of a Uberti Walker and a Uberti 1849 Colt Pocket .31 when it's all added together over the years and I have not experienced any problems. If I had then I would tell ya'll. Can't speak right now for the Uberti carbine except to say that so far it is performing flawlessly and true to the mark.
I do know of one man who had a broken main spring in Alaska (like to cost him his life) but that was a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum, Model 29.Well, anyway...Okay...
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bigbadgun
Member
I think it safe to say that we are all pationate about what we carry in the back country. To make the long story short carry what you feel safe with.
Try people that you may know that shoot BP try there guns out find the pistol that is right for you and your wallet. Just remember saftey first if your in the back country only load 5 chambers rest on the 6th. But what ever you buy make it a .44 for max stopping power. When I am in the hunt mode the Walker is loaded for bear so to speak and the 51 navy in .44 is on my side why because I can.
Try people that you may know that shoot BP try there guns out find the pistol that is right for you and your wallet. Just remember saftey first if your in the back country only load 5 chambers rest on the 6th. But what ever you buy make it a .44 for max stopping power. When I am in the hunt mode the Walker is loaded for bear so to speak and the 51 navy in .44 is on my side why because I can.
bigbadgun said,
This time you may have misunderstood my message. I did not say that the Colts and Remingtons were not reliable. I said the Ruger Old Army is more reliable over the long term. I own a Uberti Walker, a Uberti Second Model Dragoon, a Colt Third Model Dragoon and a Pietta 1858 Remington, and all are very good, reliable guns. I've owned three of them for over 30 years and they've never let me down. I have routinely, every 3 or 4 years, replaced what I thought were weak or worn action parts; I might have been premature in that the parts might have lasted a number of years longer, but my best judgment told me the parts seemed a bit worn and to err on the side of caution, and I did so. That does not mean the guns are unreliable, just that I'm a bit conservative.
That same conservatism would lead me to the Ruger Old Army IF I had to chose a black powder revolver to deliver one shot in defense of my life. It has an unparalleled reputation amongst those people who own and regularly use one for strength and reliability.
It's not a big difference. They're all very good guns when properly maintained and not abused. I just happen to think the extra bit of reliability I believe one gets with the ROA is worth the money when it comes to stopping a serious threat with one shot.
This time you may have misunderstood my message. I did not say that the Colts and Remingtons were not reliable. I said the Ruger Old Army is more reliable over the long term. I own a Uberti Walker, a Uberti Second Model Dragoon, a Colt Third Model Dragoon and a Pietta 1858 Remington, and all are very good, reliable guns. I've owned three of them for over 30 years and they've never let me down. I have routinely, every 3 or 4 years, replaced what I thought were weak or worn action parts; I might have been premature in that the parts might have lasted a number of years longer, but my best judgment told me the parts seemed a bit worn and to err on the side of caution, and I did so. That does not mean the guns are unreliable, just that I'm a bit conservative.
That same conservatism would lead me to the Ruger Old Army IF I had to chose a black powder revolver to deliver one shot in defense of my life. It has an unparalleled reputation amongst those people who own and regularly use one for strength and reliability.
It's not a big difference. They're all very good guns when properly maintained and not abused. I just happen to think the extra bit of reliability I believe one gets with the ROA is worth the money when it comes to stopping a serious threat with one shot.
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bigbadgun
Member
oh ok sorry if I did misunderstand. I was gonna keep going but i well stop there and add just this its a cost issue for me and again I feel very safe with my weapons of choice.
dwave
Member
Of course the biggest problem I have had with the replicas are the hand springs busting, more so on my Colt clones than the Remington Clone. As of yet I have not busted any parts on the Remington. Also, I load up all cylinders and put the hammer in the notch on my 58 clone. Works just fine and to rotate the cylinder off you need to pull the hammer farther that half-cock. With the holster loop going over the hammer, I don't see it as an issue either. My colt however gets loaded with 5 because it doesn't have any safety pins to put the hammer on.
.44walkersabot
member
MyKeal, good evening sir.
I am changing some parts in my Walker the day after tomorrow. I'vd got plenty of spare parts, but I will keep the old parts anyway as emergency parts since they still work.
I read the post you just put up and it made me start thinking about how many times I fired that Walker when I was learning how to hit with those sights.
Well, I guess this could go around in a never ending circle for years like 'What's better?, The 7mm Mag, or the 30-06'? I would never speak disparagingly of a man's choice of firearms, or his choice of music, or his choice of women. To his own master he stands or falls. I don't know anything about a Pietta except what I read and what people tell me. I know Ruger build's some damn fine firearms. Hell, the whole world know's that. I like my Uberti's. They have always worked just fine. Nothing has ever broken or got out of time.
I think a little of the problem is that people buy a blackpowder handgun, already thinking in their mind that it's not as good as a modern firearm, so that's their mindset when they go to the range. Plus they already know it's next to impossible to load it too heavy and blow it up, so they keep increasing the powder load, trying to make the revolver do far more than it was ever intended to do. In other words they try to make it work beyond normal working range for that caliber and then they get mad as hell when it won't do it perfectly every time, plus they keep putting an undue strain on the revolver so things start breaking. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news (by the way, do ya'll kill the messenger?) but a .36 is not going to carry and perform like a .41 Mag. and an ROA is not going to carry and perform like a fully loaded Walker. I know that from everything I'vd been able to find out (short of buying one and shooting it for myself) that if push come to shove I would not hesitate for one moment about trusting a Remington New Model Army .44 made by Pietta although I would rather it be made by Uberti since I'vd had such good luck with them...Okay...
I am changing some parts in my Walker the day after tomorrow. I'vd got plenty of spare parts, but I will keep the old parts anyway as emergency parts since they still work.
I read the post you just put up and it made me start thinking about how many times I fired that Walker when I was learning how to hit with those sights.
Well, I guess this could go around in a never ending circle for years like 'What's better?, The 7mm Mag, or the 30-06'? I would never speak disparagingly of a man's choice of firearms, or his choice of music, or his choice of women. To his own master he stands or falls. I don't know anything about a Pietta except what I read and what people tell me. I know Ruger build's some damn fine firearms. Hell, the whole world know's that. I like my Uberti's. They have always worked just fine. Nothing has ever broken or got out of time.
I think a little of the problem is that people buy a blackpowder handgun, already thinking in their mind that it's not as good as a modern firearm, so that's their mindset when they go to the range. Plus they already know it's next to impossible to load it too heavy and blow it up, so they keep increasing the powder load, trying to make the revolver do far more than it was ever intended to do. In other words they try to make it work beyond normal working range for that caliber and then they get mad as hell when it won't do it perfectly every time, plus they keep putting an undue strain on the revolver so things start breaking. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news (by the way, do ya'll kill the messenger?) but a .36 is not going to carry and perform like a .41 Mag. and an ROA is not going to carry and perform like a fully loaded Walker. I know that from everything I'vd been able to find out (short of buying one and shooting it for myself) that if push come to shove I would not hesitate for one moment about trusting a Remington New Model Army .44 made by Pietta although I would rather it be made by Uberti since I'vd had such good luck with them...Okay...
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