Scream, Yell, Call the Police, But don't shoot!

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Our Land or Theirs?
by Terence P. Jeffrey
Posted Apr 21, 2004

The warm season approaches, Earth Day comes and goes, and major dailies in the West are advising readers on how to avoid deadly encounters with man-eating lions that might be lurking along suburban trails or near backyard swing sets.

"Jogging or cycling after dusk in the mountains is not advised, as that is near feeding time for the cougars," warns the San Francisco Chronicle.

"Clear low, scrubby vegetation on your property to remove hiding places for cougars, especially around children's play areas," advises the Orange County Register.

The Modesto Bee published the protocol for communicating with a predator that is pondering its lunch. "Running may stimulate a mountain lion's instinct to chase," says the Bee. "Instead, stand and face the animal. Make eye contact."

But for the most authoritative advice, potential human prey can turn directly to the California Department of Fish and Game (DFG). Under the heading, "If You Encounter a Mountain Lion," a DFG pamphlet lists several key points beyond the fundamentals of facing the hungry beast and looking him straight in the eye.

"Observations of captured wild mountain lions," says DFG, "reveal that the animals seem especially drawn to children." Furthermore, it is clear this is not a matronly instinct.

"If you have small children with you, pick them up so they don't panic and run," says DFG. "Although it may be awkward, pick them up without bending over or turning away from the mountain lion. . . . (A) person squatting or bending over looks a lot like a four-legged prey animal."

Although this bit of advice sounds like it is targeted at the two-armed parent with 1.7 children, it is nonetheless of value to families of all shapes and sizes for its underlying scientific insight: Mountain lions may be "especially drawn" to bipeds -- like your toddler -- but they are even more especially drawn to quadrupeds -- like your dog.

"Do all you can to appear larger," instructs DFG. "Raise your arms. Open your jacket if you are wearing one. Again, pick up small children. Throw stones, branches, or whatever you can reach without crouching or turning your back. Wave your arms slowly and speak firmly in a loud voice. The idea is to convince the mountain lion you are not prey and that you may be a danger to it."

DFG offers still more advice. But a parent possessing both the strength of Arnold Schwarzenegger and the moves of Fred Astaire could not perform the choreography already prescribed.

And, conspicuously, two simple steps that for generations kept Westerners safe from lions are not recommended. They are, of course: Aim carefully. Squeeze trigger.

This is because California state law forbids pre-emptively killing cougars. From 1907 to 1963, the state paid a bounty for dead lions. But in 1972, California banned hunting the big cats; and, in 1990, voters made them a "specially protected species." Now, authorities can kill a lion only after it has demonstrated it is a safety threat, and private citizens can kill one only (with a special permit) after it has damaged property or livestock.

This lion coddling comes with a price. "Prior to 1986," DFG reported in its Outdoor California magazine, "there was very little concern for public safety threats from lions. Although historic records reported fatal attacks on humans in 1890 and 1909, no further attacks occurred until March 1986. That year a lion seriously injured a young girl visiting an Orange County park."

This January, a lion killed one mountain biker and wounded another in separate incidents at an Orange County wilderness park. A few days later, a study released by U.C. Davis said there had been six mountain lion attacks and two deaths in California in the previous 10 years. Meanwhile, reported mountain lion incidents proliferate along California's coast -- from a golfer being stalked in San Diego County, to children being warned in posh Marin that a lion was sighted near their school.

When Californians hunted lions, lions didn't hunt them. Now man and beast are switching roles.

Nothing more starkly exemplifies how environmentalist ideology has turned upside down the way man views his relationship with nature. When Americans first went west, we unabashedly went to conquer the wild things and bring them under our dominion. Now we aren't sure if this is our land or theirs.


http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3644
 
I never was one to go on and on about what I'll do when TSHTF, but if I was ever in that scenario, the next people to come down that trail would mysteriously find a dead cougar...

Dead from lead poisoning...







"Now how did that thing get there?"
 
Throw stones, branches, or whatever you can reach without crouching or turning your back.
I can throw little pieces of lead and copper without crouching or turning my back. I keep some in a special container on my belt for just such an occasion.


Although, the escaped gorilla in Dallas recently is causing me to re-think my switch from .45 to 9mm. :D
 
In places where you just can't carry, but need to fear predatory animals, here's an idea that passes the PC test.

Make a large "walking stick" which connects to a large field knife for an instant defensive spear. I'd rather have 7" of razor sharp steel out on the end of a 5' long hardwood spear, than try to fight off a couger with my bare hands, or even a knife in my hand. You only have to fabricate a simple connector, from, for example, an 8" section of 1" ID alloy tube, that mates to both your "walking stick" and your field knife.

Just an idea.

bookcover.jpg
 
You only have to fabricate a simple connector, from, for example, an 8" section of 1" ID alloy tube, that mates to both your "walking stick" and your field knife.
I wonder if you could find a surplus baynet mount somewhere that you could mount on your walking stick? I would never suggest cutting up a good rifle to get one but I suppose a rusted lump of steel that used to be a rifle or maybe you could find parts somewhere?

Just a thought.
 
On a mountain lion scale of 1 to 10 I wonder how tasty a fresh PC californian is?

Would a gun grabbin' Californian taste different than a non-gun-grabin' Califonian?

How about a meat eating Californian compared to a vegan.

Hungry Mountain Lions wanna know... :confused:
 
This whole puma versus man thing is getting out of hand. Here in AZ, the State Fish and Game guys are trying to mollify the citizens of Tucson, as pumas have been seen in the fringy suburbs of the city near the Santa Catalina Mts.

They even claimed that a puma or two was seen near a grade school. Which led me to postulate: "What IDIOT puts a grade school next to a wilderness area, and leaves said school defenseless?"

What everyone seems to forget is that the territory we humans wander in to when we encounter pumas is PRIME puma turf. If we encounter one, we should NOT be surprised. Prepared, yes, surprised no.

If someone builds their home in the middle of the wilderness, one should expect to experience the ENTIRE wilderness, not just the fuzzy friendly part!!!

This just bugs me to no end.:fire:

MORE RANT: All the California transplant yuppies here in AZ seem to think the trails here in the wide open spaces are nothing more than an outdoor version of the running track at the local health club. Then they get all huffy when they discover that the trails are shared with rattlesnakes, pumas, or other critters with teeth.

Last night, the TV news had an interview with a homeowner who discovered a bobcat in her back yard, sleeping in the shade of the house. The homeowner is freaking out, and wanting to know what sort of repellant they can put out to prevent a revisit by the cat (Ortho "Bobcat-B-Gone"?).

They move to the edge of the desert, and they are freaked/indignant/whatever when the residents of the desert visit their back yard. It makes NO SENSE.:banghead:
 
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I'd like to point out that there are many Californians, few lions.
Why begrudge the poor critters an occasional snack?
Vern, I'm shocked.
I've never liked the idea of using poison as a way of dealing with pests larger than rodents.
 
I wonder how many people will hae to die in CA before they allow even limtied Cougar hunts. As soon as they allow even limited hunts cougar attacks will stop, I am nto saying eradicate the animals, but a few hunts will put fear back in the cougars and they will avoid contact with humans. It is a simple matter of aversion therapy, give an animal a reason to have an aversion to humans, I can't think of anything better to cause an aversion than a firearm. I mean look at the aversion anti-s have to them, and we don't even shoot the anti-s. If you tree or even chase a few cats with the hounds, kill a few, then the cats are gonna retreat to the hills.

Werewolf, I suspect a cats would starve on a deit of Vegans, not enough protein.
 
not much surprise to read such nonsense from a leftist rag like the SanFran Chronicle.

yet just a few weeks ago, a VERY different article appeared, on events taking place just 65 mi away from SanFran -
http://www.napanews.com/star/templa..._full&id=3F2D0099-287C-4759-B6FF-8C7A9BFD36F0

St. Helena teen shoots, kills mountain lion
Thursday, April 8, 2004

By Mike Lynch
EDITOR

Just 11 days prior to the scheduled date of a special educational workshop in Franz Valley on mountain lions, a Napa County youth has shot and killed one of the animals.

Andy White, 14, said that for a moment on Tuesday morning, he thought he was going to be the main course in a mountain lion's breakfast. Instead, the 14-year-old St. Helena High School student was able to shoot the cat three times, killing the 63-pound animal on a remote hillside near his grandparents' home on Chiles Pope Valley Road in northwest Napa County. ...

most importantly, the part the Chronicle propagandist left out -

...Although mountain lions are protected under a statewide initiative passed in 1990, Fish and Game gives out depredation permits in cases where lions have threatened livestock, pets or people. The permits can also be handed out after the animal is dead, once a Fish and Game investigation determines that the hunter had reason to kill the lion.

Jesse Keiser, a Department of Fish and Game warden, said the story offered by White and his friend Smeding appears to check out.

"Based on my findings so far, the boys' account of what happened appears to be legitimate and that they were acting in self-defense. At this point, there is nothing to lead me to think otherwise," Keiser said. ...


EDIT - CA may have plenty of PC Idiots, but fortunately they DON'T represent most of us (anymore) -

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I have to apologize -- I didn't think about the impact of eating Californians on the lions. Maybe each Californian should carry a bag of Purina Mountian Lion Chow whenever they go jogging at dusk?:D
 
So we clawed our way to the top of the food chain only to be told by the bunny huggers that we should yell and throuw sticks at another meat eater?
 
T.McGee, your suggestion calls to mind the outlawing of spears in the Philippines. In northern Luzon, the Igorots merely made their bolos to have hollow handles. Strange, but they just happen to mate up with the taper on the end of their walking sticks!

I'm no Igorot, but I've found that an old hoe handle is the basis for a near-six-foot spear...

As for the probabilities of the behavior of lions, a standing adult human isn't the typical shape for consideration as prey; a lion won't readily attack. However, a bent-over human becomes a deer-shaped critter, sorta, and is more attractive. Little kids are just the right size for almost any lion's supper.

From reading of attacks through the years, and relying on a couple of reports from Big Bend National Park in Texas, it seems that attacks on little kids have come mostly from younger lions. "Seems", not "I'm sure." This may be because the younger lions aren't as competent or experienced in killing deer or wild hogs as a more usual prey.

Be that as it may, not all lions have read Art's book on the subject. :D

Art
 
Nothing more starkly exemplifies how environmentalist ideology has turned upside down the way man views his relationship with nature. When Americans first went west, we unabashedly went to conquer the wild things and bring them under our dominion. Now we aren't sure if this is our land or theirs.

Yes Americans went West and decimated animal populations, erradicated others, and generally mucked a lot up. You guys actually think it is ok to drive a speices to extinction? News flash, predator spieces do not bounce back like prey species. It takes a long time for them to recover.

Having worked with large, dangerous animals for a living, the advice given on preventing attacks is spot on. Running will get you attacked because it triggers the chase response. They also are evil animal out to eat your children as the article implies. Give a thought as to why they might go after children. Could it be because they are small and easily captured? Same reason why they take household pets and live stock. High reward for little effort. Lot easier running down a sheep than it is a deer.

I swear, some of you people react with the same fear as Liberals do to guns. If you are afraid of mountain/bear attacks, how about not going into those places where they might be? For the people who go an build in those areas and get mad or scared when the animals come around and eat little Fifi, well that should have been taken into consideration before moving into those areas.
 
When I walked up on my first couger I did everything they advised and did it well. He looked at me with his cold predator eyes and was absolutely unimpressed. He turned and left because he felt like it.
Distance was about 20 yards on an abandoned RR track turned trail. He was extremely large... about 10 to 12 feet including tail.
I never walked again without my Glock 29... and now I stuff it with 200g xtp's from Double Tap.
 
When Baumgarten the Bear (who roams up and down this valley) came to rob my beehive, I ran to get my camera (no batteries! Dang!)

We moved the hive to my neighbor's -- he has goats, and a Great Pyranees to guard them. Baumgarten hasn't been back -- but I see him fairly regularly down by the creek, and see his sign more often.
 
Make a large "walking stick" which connects to a large field knife for an instant defensive spear.
How about a tactical cane?

When I was visiting Gatlinburg, a friend bought a cane at one of the local shops.

Since he is a lot younger than me (I could probably use one!) I asked him why he bought it.

He said:

1. Back surgery (I didnt know about that) made the cane a good idea.
2. He pulled the "sheath" off (what looked like an ordinary cane) to display a sword (VERY long knife maybe??)

Now that I thought about it, I think I'd like to have one of thse things. -Not that expensive either....

When hiking, I *MIGHT* be able to use that to avoid using my handgun on lesser threats. - Might be better for everyone concerned if I could avoid using my defensive handgun.
 
I bought just the cane secton of this innovation, with the T handle and hardened ice tip...and the blade, of course :) The full staff (well, maybe minus the darts) would be a handy dandy thing for the left coast hikers. The blade could be mounted aforehand, and you could carry a small trash bag tucked into a belt or pack strap. If accosted by Mr. Ranger, you would be able to show your clean-up concern for the environment. 'Course, if he didn't believe it, you might be cleaning up trails and campsites for 90 days with just a plain ol' nail on a stick :eek:

http://www.crawfordknives.com/survivalstaff.htm
 
2. He pulled the "sheath" off (what looked like an ordinary cane) to display a sword (VERY long knife maybe??)

Better check your state laws on sword canes before carrying one. In OK they are specifically banned from carry by law. Get caught with one in public and go to jail.

I imagine that they may be legal in states that include knives on their CCW permits as the sword would be considered concealed. BUT as I said before check your state's law before running out and buying yourself a sword cane.
 
I wonder how many people will have to die in CA before they allow even limtied Cougar hunts.
I don't think it's a matter of how many people, but which people.

As soon as the relative/friend of a politician gets scarfed up, then we'll see some action.

Though in CA, that action is more likely to be "Ban biking/jogging in wilderness areas" than allowing self-defense.
 
Vegan is GOOD eatin'

Cordex your ignorance is showing. Don't you know that the old word for "vegan" is "herbivore"? :D


Or perhaps just "prey". :evil:
 
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