Ole Humpback
Member
*MODS*
I'm not 100% sure if this belongs in General Gun Discussion or here, so move if needed.
I was supposed to meet a local state representative this morning for coffee and construction talk. He ended up falling ill this morning and not making it and due to the wonders of technology, I waited for about 15 minutes on him before I realized something wasn't right and went on to work.
During my wait, the group of people behind me was talking about how a guy with a muzzleloader accidentally shot & killed a girl from over a mile & a half away:
http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/5138144
At first I paid no attention to the conversation as I could tell that getting involved in it was a bad idea. There were three men whom to me seemed to be fairly anti-gun and one elderly man who was anti-guns for hunting. It wasn't until the elderly fellow started saying that muzzleloaders shooting Armor Piercing ammo (I'll eat my hat if there is actually AP ammo for a BP gun of any kind) could shoot well over a mile and that if the bullet was a hollow point it would shoot right through a car at that range. This is when I decided to interject with fact.
I started by saying that there is no AP ammo for muzzleloaders and that most commercially avaliable bullets are not of sufficient weight & construction to penetrate steel plate past 150yds or so (yes I know this isn't 100% accurate, but its far closer to reality than what was being made out). I continued by stating that some cast bullets are of the construction & shape for 1+ mile shooting, but that most muzzleloaders avaliable are incapable of shooting that far effectively due to lack of energy both on velocity & KE. I then compared the muzzleloader to a standard 308 military rifle & a 45-70 BP rifle at 1000yds for trajectory purposes. I also made the point that long distance shooting means shooting where the target will be, not where it currently is to further show how fluke an accident this is.
The group of three then asked me if I owned a gun which I replied yes to. That scared all of them then they asked me if I would have done the same shooting my gun to clean it to which I said no. They asked why I wouldn't do it and I said that since I did not know where the bullet would land, I wouldn't shoot it. Then they asked me if I thought the guy in the article was reckless to which I answered it depends. I said that if he knew that he was going to be endangering someone's life by doing it then yes, if he had done it several times before and not hurt anyone (NOTE: I don't know why you would want to shoot your muzzleloader into the air to clean it, nor would I do it either) then no, but I also wasn't there and don't know everything that happened. To that they replied "Well the newspaper says this" to which I ended the discussion with "They say your uninformed if you don't read the newspaper and misinformed if you do". They were all of the opinion that this man needs to go to jail for murder/homicide/manslaughter for this freak accident.
In the spirit of learning and for the next time it happens, how could I have approached this better? I stuck to facts, but know that I didn't make a compelling argument for proper gun ownership & handling.
I'm not 100% sure if this belongs in General Gun Discussion or here, so move if needed.
I was supposed to meet a local state representative this morning for coffee and construction talk. He ended up falling ill this morning and not making it and due to the wonders of technology, I waited for about 15 minutes on him before I realized something wasn't right and went on to work.
During my wait, the group of people behind me was talking about how a guy with a muzzleloader accidentally shot & killed a girl from over a mile & a half away:
http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/5138144
At first I paid no attention to the conversation as I could tell that getting involved in it was a bad idea. There were three men whom to me seemed to be fairly anti-gun and one elderly man who was anti-guns for hunting. It wasn't until the elderly fellow started saying that muzzleloaders shooting Armor Piercing ammo (I'll eat my hat if there is actually AP ammo for a BP gun of any kind) could shoot well over a mile and that if the bullet was a hollow point it would shoot right through a car at that range. This is when I decided to interject with fact.
I started by saying that there is no AP ammo for muzzleloaders and that most commercially avaliable bullets are not of sufficient weight & construction to penetrate steel plate past 150yds or so (yes I know this isn't 100% accurate, but its far closer to reality than what was being made out). I continued by stating that some cast bullets are of the construction & shape for 1+ mile shooting, but that most muzzleloaders avaliable are incapable of shooting that far effectively due to lack of energy both on velocity & KE. I then compared the muzzleloader to a standard 308 military rifle & a 45-70 BP rifle at 1000yds for trajectory purposes. I also made the point that long distance shooting means shooting where the target will be, not where it currently is to further show how fluke an accident this is.
The group of three then asked me if I owned a gun which I replied yes to. That scared all of them then they asked me if I would have done the same shooting my gun to clean it to which I said no. They asked why I wouldn't do it and I said that since I did not know where the bullet would land, I wouldn't shoot it. Then they asked me if I thought the guy in the article was reckless to which I answered it depends. I said that if he knew that he was going to be endangering someone's life by doing it then yes, if he had done it several times before and not hurt anyone (NOTE: I don't know why you would want to shoot your muzzleloader into the air to clean it, nor would I do it either) then no, but I also wasn't there and don't know everything that happened. To that they replied "Well the newspaper says this" to which I ended the discussion with "They say your uninformed if you don't read the newspaper and misinformed if you do". They were all of the opinion that this man needs to go to jail for murder/homicide/manslaughter for this freak accident.
In the spirit of learning and for the next time it happens, how could I have approached this better? I stuck to facts, but know that I didn't make a compelling argument for proper gun ownership & handling.