What to look for when buying a Mosin Nagant?

[kmcintosh78]

The Ishapore Enfield slipped away. Thanks to all that helped educate me on them.
So the story continues.
Ok, so I am some what firearm savvy. But, mostly to newer style firearms.
I want to buy a Mosin, but want to know what do I look for?
I have read about people noting reverse rifling or crowning?
I know to look for a bright and shinny bore, but how deep should the rifle grooves be?
Head spacing, what is that. Can it be checked with a caliper?
Any help would be great.

Thanks

 

[R.W.Dale]

That the barrel is in front and the buttstock is rear....that's all the mosin owner needs to look or

 

[kmcintosh78]

Ah hah!!
And to not look down the barrel when there is no boom after the click, right?

 

[Franco2shoot]

Need a little more info as to which MN you are going after. There are 3 varieties: the original 91/30 (multiple manufacturers - some say Tula is better than Ishevsk) next is the M-44 carbine (has a folding bayonet) and then the carbine that does not have the bayonet.

If you were looking at Enfield's I would steer you towards the 91/30. Next concern is how much you are willing to pay... A Finnish made 91/30 is gonna cost you triple what a run of the mill Ishevsk will run.

Then there is the issue of matching numbers... some folks will tell you its best to have all matching numbers... Maybe... if it has been through the Refurb process wouldn't you want one that has the best tolerances instead of just matching numbers...

Pretty much you will get what you pay for.. I've not found folks that are ignorant of what they have... at the same time I have seen dealers want an arm and a leg for something that's less than perfect. If you look in the $120-180 price range you won't go wrong.

My personal opinion, (and since its free you can guess what its worth) but here goes: Pull the bolt and look down the barrel. I wouldn't purchase one that has been drilled to clean up the barrel.(re-crowning) its easy to spot, the very end of the barrel has been drilled down about a quarter inch. I would want to see good rifle grooves, it's doubtful you're gonna see a barrel that is bright shiney steel. They've been around longer than I've been alive, and it takes a whole lot of work to remove all that BLACK, but it can be done.

It took me months to get mine to where it would shoot 1" groups at 100 yards (1 MOA), but it does when I put it in a stand. All in, all I paid a hundred bucks for the MN, then put a pretty nice Wal-Mart scope on it for another "C" note, and now have something that is a great plinker/hunter with the correct ammo.

One last thing to pass on, and it may just be "K" "O" inkey-dink, but at the last gun-show there was only one MN for sale... tons of AR's and hand guns as well as high priced stuff, no idea why...


KKKKFL

 

[WesM]

I am by no means an expert, but I would check the bore for evidence of pitting or corrosion, check the muzzle to see if it had been counterbored or otherwise just check the diameter of the muzzle end of the barrel by inserting the tip of a 7.62x54R bullet and seeing how tight it is.

Also check to see if the serial numbers match all over the gun, esp. on the receiver and the bolt. If they do, I wouldn't worry specifically about checking the headspace. Others may disagree.

Check the working of the bolt. Many people say their Mosin is difficult to open after firing. I haven't had that problem. But for durn sure make sure it is not difficult to open WITHOUT having fired a bullet!

 

[kmcintosh78]

Sorry for leaving out the fact that I am looking at the 91/30.
I am trying to choose between a $90 at a local shop, or a $100 Hex Receiver from a private sale.

Now, is counter boring bad or good?
Is re-crowning bad or good?
Thanks

 

[zstephens13]

I just bought a Mosin-Nagant 91/30, matching numbers, bayonett, cleaning kit and belt pouch with a hex receiver, and thats what i would go for if i were you. the hex receiver is much more rare then the rounded, and gives it a very meaty look in my opinion.

 

[RP88]

make sure the metal is in good shape and that the numbers on the receiver and bolt match. Then, check the barrel. It's best to find one with good rifling and with lands still present. Counterboring is generally an undesirable feature, because it means that the gun saw a lot of wear and service. On an old, worn gun though, counterboring is generally good - but, the point is to find one that isn't that worn. Make sure there is minimal pitting; you'll find pitting on pretty much any 91/30, but as long as the barrel doesn't have the texture of an abandoned hiking trail, it should be fine.

For M44s and 91/59's (91/59's = the non-bayonet M44, basically), the bore should be in really nice condition since these did not really see much (if any) hard use. Check just in case and make sure the numbers match on the bolt and receiver and it should be fine.

 

[kmcintosh78]

How do you check for counter boring?

 

[chuwee81]

insert a cartridge from the muzzle end (preferably a snap cap). If the bullet part didn't go all the way in - leaves 1-2 mm before it touches the neck of the cartridge, then the muzzle/ bore is intact or good and has not been counterbored. If it sunk deep enough and even "swallowed" the neck of the cartridge case, most likely it's counterbored.

you can insert a straw/ pencil and go around the inside. You will feel a bump (like a step) once you go 1/4" or 1/2" deep because the muzzle is wider.

Counterboring doesn't necessarily mean the barrel is worn, but due to most soldiers clean from the muzzle end and damaged the crown. As long as the rifling is still good and sharp, you'll end up with a shooter.

edit: I'd rather get a counterbored MN with sharp and shiny rifling than an intact muzzle but dark and pitted bore.

 

[stchman]

Check the barrel to see if you see nice grooves. Most MNs have dark bores.

IMO counter-boring is not a terribly undesirable thing. Just means that the front of the barrel needed some cleaning up. Re-crowning if done right you won't be able to tell.

Matching numbers for bolt/receiver are somewhat important as it is a good indicator that the headspace is correct.

A lot of the stocks are going to be a little beat up looking, but some sandpaper and some boiled linseed oil will bring the wood back to life.

 

[Cosmoline]

There are actually dozens of varieties from many nations made from the 1890's through the early 1970's. These sites have good overviews:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/
http://7.62x54r.net/

The most common on the current market are the wartime Soviet 91/30's and M44's. I'd suggest passing on those now as they'll be around a long while yet. This is a good time to shop for Finnish Mosins. The M39's are still quite cheap and easy to find, as are the late mode Tikka M91's and M30's. None of these were made in large numbers, so they're all nice to have as long as nobody has cut on them. The best of them are fantastic shooters made by some of the best rifle shops in the world. If you're after a historical, accurate and reliable range gun I'd say get yourself an M39. They're a bit on the heavy side but will shoot all day long and will eat a wide array of ammo. They're going for $200 to $350 for a good one, but if you feel up to doing some repair you can get one with a busted stock for $150 or so. I've gone that route before and used a mix of gorilla glue and some brass rods which seemed to work perfectly fine even for the wrist.

The pre-war Finns are getting harder and harder to find as folks have learned more about the Winter War. But if you see an M28 M28-30 or M27 intact for under $450 it's probably worth grabbing. They tend to be geared for Finnish ammo, often notated as 7.62x53R. Some have .3085" bores. So they're not the best for shooting surplus comblock.

Matching numbers are not nearly as important with Mosins as with Mausers. Some of the very best of them are non-matching or forced matched. The bolt head is a separate piece so it really doesn't matter where the handle came from.

I've never had much problem with headspacing on Mosins. They seem to be designed with looser tolerances. The only one I ever had with really bad hs was a Finn M28/30 that looked like it had been shot until the barrel was molten hot then been driven into tank treads. That one would pop primers and spit some gas into the magazine, but that was the extent of it. I fired it with a string.

For Soviet Mosins the best ones tend to be pre-war Tulas. The Aztec imports always shot well for me.

Be careful about the "snipers"--the market is full of fakes.

 

[mongo4567]

I like to have stamped matching numbers. I also look at the rifling from the muzzle; that is where it wears the most. Once the lands start looking heavily worn and rounded the accuracy may start to degrade. Big hits on it or a muzzle out of round may benefit from a recrown...but I would be hesistant to buy one with a beat up muzzle.

The 7.62x54 headspaces on the rim and not the overall length, so it isn't as important as other calibers.

I also recommend enjoying it like it is; no sandpaper, drilling, or cutting is necessary. One day it may be collectible.