What would cause a round to stovepipe on feeding
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wally
Member
If you mean the slide closes on a live round with the bullet nose above the top of the slide its usually one of two things.
A bad magazine that is letting the top round come free during recoil. If this is the case you usually will also occasionally find live rounds on the ground with the empties and you had one less shot than you expected.
Or its a "bolt over base" feed where the next round is "late" getting up into position and the slide catches the extraction groove instead of the base. Usually this from the rounds binding in the magazine and/or a weak mag spring, but can also be caused by anything that prevents the slide from going fully rearward in recoil.
When asking for causes, a decent photo of the problem saves a lot of incorrect answers.
A bad magazine that is letting the top round come free during recoil. If this is the case you usually will also occasionally find live rounds on the ground with the empties and you had one less shot than you expected.
Or its a "bolt over base" feed where the next round is "late" getting up into position and the slide catches the extraction groove instead of the base. Usually this from the rounds binding in the magazine and/or a weak mag spring, but can also be caused by anything that prevents the slide from going fully rearward in recoil.
When asking for causes, a decent photo of the problem saves a lot of incorrect answers.
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dprice3844444
member
what weapon?we need to know that also
JRH6856
Member
Hmm R51. 
What kind of ammo? Does it happen with both mags? How many rounds do you have through the gun? And what is the SN range?
What kind of ammo? Does it happen with both mags? How many rounds do you have through the gun? And what is the SN range?
JRH6856
Member
There are several things that can cause feed failures in the R51 but they seem to come down to either the slide not fully cycling or the magazine not feeding properly. Or a bit of both.
Out of the box, the action is rough. The slide can hang at several points. After 500 rounds the action should have smoothed out by now.
The one thing that can't smooth out is the undersized chamber. The R51 chamber is probably not properly finish reamed to SAMMI spec. I haven't seen or heard of any that are. As a result, some ammo may not chamber properly and this too can prevent the slide from cycling fully.
Are you using Remington Ammo or some other brand? FMJ or hollowpoint?
That is happens with one mag more than the other is suggestive of a mag problem. Mine cleared up after I lubed the follower with dry silicone lube. It also seems to help if you only load 6 rounds instead of 7 and tap the mag to seat the roinds against the rear of the mag before inserting it. If the rounds are too far forward, one or more might get popped out of the lips with the nose too high and you have a stove pipe feed.
Out of the box, the action is rough. The slide can hang at several points. After 500 rounds the action should have smoothed out by now.
The one thing that can't smooth out is the undersized chamber. The R51 chamber is probably not properly finish reamed to SAMMI spec. I haven't seen or heard of any that are. As a result, some ammo may not chamber properly and this too can prevent the slide from cycling fully.
Are you using Remington Ammo or some other brand? FMJ or hollowpoint?
That is happens with one mag more than the other is suggestive of a mag problem. Mine cleared up after I lubed the follower with dry silicone lube. It also seems to help if you only load 6 rounds instead of 7 and tap the mag to seat the roinds against the rear of the mag before inserting it. If the rounds are too far forward, one or more might get popped out of the lips with the nose too high and you have a stove pipe feed.
Walt Sherrill
Member
The comments above are correct, but I've always heard the term applied to an EMPTY case... So I'll mention this as well -- but it's clearly not the problem you describe.
Stove pipes, when the term refers to an EMPTY case that's setting up in the chamber like a stove pipe, with a new round pushing it toward the chamber (and causing a jam) is generally caused by the extractor losing it's grip on the rim... If THAT's the problem, check your extractor, extractor spring, etc.
Stove pipes, when the term refers to an EMPTY case that's setting up in the chamber like a stove pipe, with a new round pushing it toward the chamber (and causing a jam) is generally caused by the extractor losing it's grip on the rim... If THAT's the problem, check your extractor, extractor spring, etc.
JRH6856
Member
A further problem with the mags is the second major issue I have with the R51. While the marketing specs show the capacity as 7+1, the loading instructions in the manual make it clear that the operating capacity is 6+1
You are told to lock the slide, load 7 rounds in the mag, insert the mag, and drop the slide. At this point, the manual says the gun is "fully loaded".
If you top off the mag to 7 rounds and reinsert it, most of the time it will not fully seat. It may fall out on the first shot, but if it does not, the next round will still not be positioned properly and is likely to be a stovepipe feed or just fly out of the gun as the following round is chambered.
You are told to lock the slide, load 7 rounds in the mag, insert the mag, and drop the slide. At this point, the manual says the gun is "fully loaded".
If you top off the mag to 7 rounds and reinsert it, most of the time it will not fully seat. It may fall out on the first shot, but if it does not, the next round will still not be positioned properly and is likely to be a stovepipe feed or just fly out of the gun as the following round is chambered.
JRH6856
Member
You still have not said what brand and type of ammo you are using.
And if you haven't already, check out my blog (link in sig line below) and this thread for more info on the R51.
And if you haven't already, check out my blog (link in sig line below) and this thread for more info on the R51.
When you say stovepipes the new round, do you mean that the new round is pinched by the slide, sticking bullet end up in your line of sight?
I've never seen such a phenomena, but I've seen my share of fired cases sticking up like a stovepipe in my line of sight.
JRH6856
Member
R51s do several things many of us have never seen before. 
JRH6856
Member
I have used a similar mix and found that except for problems with the one mag, all of my problems were with non Remington ammo. This has to do with the tight chamber. Remington ammo chambers, others do not due to the seating depth of the bullets.
I read your blog and I agree with you on sending the weapon back. I don't want it to sit there for 2 months while they try to figure things out. I wish they would address the chamber. If they don't, after I get it back after the recall that we all know is coming, I might have a local smith ream it out a thousandth of an inch or rwo
JRH6856
Member
Remington has shut down several production lines and is moving them to Huntsville, AL. The R51 line is being moved as part of this. Whether is was shut down and moved due to R51 problems or the R51 problems are due to the shut down and move (and subsequent job loss lowering moral) is something to consider.
Remington is taking guns in for service but none are coming back as yet. They are going to have to do something eventually, but they can't do much until they get the consolidation completed. I've got a shipping pack from Remington to send mine back, but it isn't going anywhere until I think Remington is in a position to actually do something with it besides sit on it.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
"Live Round Stovepipe aka "Rideover Feed" is a Bolt Over Base misfeed.
There are only two possibilities.
Either the slide isn't making the full trip rearward, or the magazine spring isn't up to the task of getting the cartridge into position in time to meet the slide.
On the first possibility, either the slide is oversprung...the ammo is weak...or the gun is sensitive to limp wristing...or a combination of any two or all of the above.
There are only two possibilities.
Either the slide isn't making the full trip rearward, or the magazine spring isn't up to the task of getting the cartridge into position in time to meet the slide.
On the first possibility, either the slide is oversprung...the ammo is weak...or the gun is sensitive to limp wristing...or a combination of any two or all of the above.
JRH6856
Member
Tuner, we are talking about an R51 here all of which have undersized chambers with no throat and very rough cylinder walls. As a result, some brands of ammo do not chamber fully and all may have less than smooth extraction due to the walls.
This being a Pedersen action, the slide gets its momentum from the floating breechblock and if the round is not fully chambered, or the block is delayed by the difficult extraction, the block will not have its full range of motion thus the slide may not receive the full intended momentum from the block. The result is the slide does not make the full trip rearward before moving forward.
Some examples have very rough guide slots on the disconnector which cause it to bind and even further inhibit the slide. This seems to smooth out a bit after several hundred rounds but it needs to be kept well lubricated.
Add to that, some mags do appear to have weak springs are the follower does not move freely enough. I addressed the latter with a dry lube.
Until ROC decides what they are going to do, the chamber problem is best addressed for now by using ammo that fully chambers on a plunk test. Or eventually by finish reaming the chamber if ROC decides to do nothing.
And because of the grip safety, it is almost impossible to limp wrist an R51
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
There are still only a few things that will stand a cartridge straight up in the breech area. I've seen Bolt Over Base misfeeds on M1 carbines.
JRH6856
Member
Not arguing with you. Just pointing out the prevailing conditions in the R51 that can lead to the slide short cycling.
The mags are another story. I'm still trying to diagnose and document all of the problems I've had with the mags—or rather, with one of the mags; the other runs fine.
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