Piney
Member
Guns are like everything else I own…just things. All can be replaced. There is much more that is important to me and none of them are objects.
What would it take for you to sell some of your guns?
- Thread starter chaim
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Sheslinger
Member
You don't need a $20,000 downpayment on a 200K house. You can get an FHA loan and put down 3-4%.
1) House - we already own one but I'll pretend that we don't... probably would not sell guns but work more to get my 3-4% downpayment.
2) Engagement ring - no way. If she loves you and you don't have the money, she does not NEED a ring, a ring is just a symbol of status, nothing else.
3) New car - no way, get one of those 0% loans and pay no interest.
Julie
1) House - we already own one but I'll pretend that we don't... probably would not sell guns but work more to get my 3-4% downpayment.
2) Engagement ring - no way. If she loves you and you don't have the money, she does not NEED a ring, a ring is just a symbol of status, nothing else.
3) New car - no way, get one of those 0% loans and pay no interest.
Julie
ksnecktieman
Member
I have been there, seen that, done that,,,,,,,,, YOU have to choose your own priorities. I recently cut down from about 30, to about fifteen guns for financial reasons (business went bad). No regrets. When I decided that was the best thing for me to do, I gave it real hard thought. I decided that I NEED four guns, a defensive pistol, a squirrel rifle, a shotgun for birds, and a deer rifle. Anything else is optional.
In my opinion there are many things more important than making loud noises, and holes in something. Think about it, and decide your needs, and your wants, and act accordingly.
Yes, some day you will look back, and say "wow, I wish I still had that (enter gun of your choice here)".
Good luck with the wedding, and I hope it does not end up with you thinking someday, "Wow, I will never forget old,,,, ??? whats her name, darn, I forgot
In my opinion there are many things more important than making loud noises, and holes in something. Think about it, and decide your needs, and your wants, and act accordingly.
Yes, some day you will look back, and say "wow, I wish I still had that (enter gun of your choice here)".
Good luck with the wedding, and I hope it does not end up with you thinking someday, "Wow, I will never forget old,,,, ??? whats her name, darn, I forgot
GigaBuist
Member
My children and grand children will always be permitted to buy a house or a vehicle. They may not be permitted to always buy a firearm though.
Well, provided I ever find somebody that I get along with well enough to pro-create that is!
I might be crazy, but I want to make sure my family is armed. Even those that do not exist yet.
It would take a LOT to get me to sell one. Even the "crap" that I have around here. Three years, 16 arms. I'm serious about this.
Well, provided I ever find somebody that I get along with well enough to pro-create that is!
I might be crazy, but I want to make sure my family is armed. Even those that do not exist yet.
It would take a LOT to get me to sell one. Even the "crap" that I have around here. Three years, 16 arms. I'm serious about this.
ksnecktieman
Member
Giga,,,, You may be assuming too much, to expect "grandfather clauses" regarding such evil things as firearms. (Or am I assuming too much, to think you mean legal firearms?)
sssshhhh sssshhhhh ( 6 inch PVC is cheapest at a plumbing wholesaler)
sssshhhh sssshhhhh ( 6 inch PVC is cheapest at a plumbing wholesaler)
In a similar vein, a lot of the posts take it as a given that these guns can always be replaced. That may or may not be true.
In the first place once you buy a house and get married, money is usually tight. And you usually have to justify your expeditures to some extent. You will have to buy all kinds of stuff for the house, then the kids come along............
Second of course is the law. What if you can't legally replace them ? What if gun contol takes the form of the AWB: they don't outright ban guns, but stop the manufacture of guns ? Or tell you that you can keep the ones you have but can buy no more ? What if replacing them becomes to big a burden ? When I got divorced, I sold several of my guns to make ends meet. It just so happened that a couple years prior to my divorce, the AWB was enacted. When I got back on my feet and was able to buy guns again, I simply wasn't willing to pay four times the price to replace them. Of course over time, I bit the bullet and paid the price to replace them, but it took years and lots of overtime. And, if I had a new house and/or a new wife I am sure it would have been out of the question.
It seems to me that you were able to earn the money to buy the guns in the first place therefore it stands to reason that you can earn that much money again without selling your assets to get it.
You are trying to do an awful lot in a short period of time. The whole thing sounds like sort of an impluse decision where you decided this is what you want to do and it has to happen yesterday. Take your time, do what is in your best interest and you will live happily ever after.
Signed:
The King of Impulse
In the first place once you buy a house and get married, money is usually tight. And you usually have to justify your expeditures to some extent. You will have to buy all kinds of stuff for the house, then the kids come along............
Second of course is the law. What if you can't legally replace them ? What if gun contol takes the form of the AWB: they don't outright ban guns, but stop the manufacture of guns ? Or tell you that you can keep the ones you have but can buy no more ? What if replacing them becomes to big a burden ? When I got divorced, I sold several of my guns to make ends meet. It just so happened that a couple years prior to my divorce, the AWB was enacted. When I got back on my feet and was able to buy guns again, I simply wasn't willing to pay four times the price to replace them. Of course over time, I bit the bullet and paid the price to replace them, but it took years and lots of overtime. And, if I had a new house and/or a new wife I am sure it would have been out of the question.
It seems to me that you were able to earn the money to buy the guns in the first place therefore it stands to reason that you can earn that much money again without selling your assets to get it.
You are trying to do an awful lot in a short period of time. The whole thing sounds like sort of an impluse decision where you decided this is what you want to do and it has to happen yesterday. Take your time, do what is in your best interest and you will live happily ever after.
Signed:
The King of Impulse
chaim
Member
Sheslinger, I would have agreed with you in the days before I became religious. However, part of what is required in Orthodox Judaism to officially become engaged is the giving of a valuable gift, and it has come to be that a ring is now what is expected. There isn't much choice there. Maybe I could get away with a cheaper ring or a diamond bracelet, but I need to give something along those lines (and if I have to give something valuable, then for my emotional satisfaction, it must be a ring of at least middle quality). The only other option, and I'm sure knowing most women I'd be taking my life into my hands if I suggested it, is using a car as the valuable gift and "kill two birds with one stone", then maybe buy the ring later. Actually, a bit more realistic might be buying the house a little sooner and using that as the valuable gift, I might survive that one (women, with exceptions, aren't usually into cars, but many are into houses, and both seem true with the woman I'm dating).
I know it may seem that way, but it is not as quick as it might seem.
-House: I am 34 years old, I've been thinking about it for years. I also used to work in the financial field (sort of, it was retail/consumer level banking) so I know that renting is a waste of money and I don't want to do it again if I don't have to. I can live with my parents for some time right now so I will do that and save for a downpayment (mortgage payments will probably be less in the houses I'm considering than rent would be). The only thing fast is that I'm old enough that I'm not waiting years (a year plus or minus a few months or until I'm married, whichever comes first) living with my parents, and I just got a good job 2 months ago.
As others have said, you don't always need 10-20% for a downpayment. With decent credit $0 will get you a house with expensive mortgage insurance. FHA loans or good negotiation skills can allow a smaller downpayment without mortgage insurance. Also, potentially keeping down the downpayment, where the Orthodox community is in Baltimore I can get an acceptable house for $160K or a nice duplex for $100K, though there are some pretty expensive houses too.
-Engagement ring: I am an Orthodox Jew. I should have been married years ago, but I only just now got a good enough job to consider it. We don't date long. We date with an eye very seriously set on marriage, we ask the big questions early, and so we tend to know fairly soon (and with "chemistry", to a degree it is there or it isn't, it isn't usually developed). Also, once we know who we want to spend our lives with, we aren't waiting because in our religion we can't so much as shake hands with someone of the opposite sex we aren't related to. Can you imagine the emotional stress of being in love with someone and not being able to touch in any way, not even hugs or hand holding? As a result we usually are engaged or broken up within a couple months of meeting (often much sooner), and married within a few short months of the engagement. It works, I haven't always been Orthodox but I have been for several years, so I've seen plenty of married couples both Orthodox and not and most of the happiest, strongest and longest lasting marriages I've seen are Orthodox Jews.
-Car: I just bought a new car when I got the job, good thing too since my old one died a month later. I want the woman I'm dating to get a new car because her's is a death-trap. I wish she already had a safe car, but she doesn't. Not much I could do about that. If we marry she will need a new car asap (I won't have my wife, when/if that happens, driving an unsafe car). The only other option is if we can get by only with my car, and I'm not sure that is a possibility (not in the beginning when I'll be working 40 miles away and she'll probably be working too).
chaim
Member
Anyway, I have pretty much made up my mind about selling.
I posted this more to get where other people's minds would be for similar situations. I wasn't so much trying to get advice, it was more curiousity. That is why I initially posted generally. I thought I was making a mistake when I "came clean" in the second post and gave my situation- I knew that would make it about me and my situation, and I'd get fewer of the kind of hypothetical answers I was looking for. However, I posted it anyway knowing that with the kind of questions I posed people's minds would be running.
So, since this thread has mostly become about my choice anyway, here again is what I've decided.
-House. I'm saving while I can live at home (a year +/- a little or until I'm married, whichever comes first) to get as much downpayment as I can. I'll probably be buying something in the $90-160K range in the area of Baltimore that the Jewish community is located so I don't need that much, especially if I can get an FHA loan.
-Car: I'm not selling guns for the car. I don't have enough guns to sell for both the ring and the car without cutting too deeply. I'm not sure what I'm doing about the car, I just can't have her in the car she's in once we're married ("if we're married" is more accurate than "once" I guess, but I think this is highly likely). She works too, hopefully I can convince her to buy a new car herself without my financial input (but being that she isn't worried about it being unsafe, it is reliable, she isn't into cars and it is my idea, that will be a very hard sell).
-Ring: Selling about half of my guns will get me around $2K +/- a few hundred. I'd rather not take from the money that will go into a downpayment on a house to buy a ring. A friend has an uncle in diamond wholesaling and he thinks his uncle will give me a deal, if not some people I've known for years (parents of a friend) own a jewelry store. At internet prices (there are reputable diamond merchants on the web) $2K will get a decent diamond (not great, but good), and with my friend's uncle or my other friend's parents I might do better. Thus, with only a little taken out of the house money I can get a pretty decent ring if I sell some guns.
The guns can be replaced later. She agrees with my philosophy that we each should have a small amount of money ($20-40 each a week) that is ours to do with as we please. She is ok with guns. It might take some time, but any I want to replace I can (none are particularly rare). I probably would eventually replace the AR and one of the .357s, but otherwise I doubt I'd even bother replacing them anyway (well, replacing with duplicates anyway, for most I would probably buy something in the same catagory but different models).
Anyway, I am interested in what you would do with similar scenarios. Most have answered that way. Many have and then commented on my specifics. Some almost seem to have tried to engage me in debate. What I most want is, what would you do facing these choices?
I posted this more to get where other people's minds would be for similar situations. I wasn't so much trying to get advice, it was more curiousity. That is why I initially posted generally. I thought I was making a mistake when I "came clean" in the second post and gave my situation- I knew that would make it about me and my situation, and I'd get fewer of the kind of hypothetical answers I was looking for. However, I posted it anyway knowing that with the kind of questions I posed people's minds would be running.
So, since this thread has mostly become about my choice anyway, here again is what I've decided.
-House. I'm saving while I can live at home (a year +/- a little or until I'm married, whichever comes first) to get as much downpayment as I can. I'll probably be buying something in the $90-160K range in the area of Baltimore that the Jewish community is located so I don't need that much, especially if I can get an FHA loan.
-Car: I'm not selling guns for the car. I don't have enough guns to sell for both the ring and the car without cutting too deeply. I'm not sure what I'm doing about the car, I just can't have her in the car she's in once we're married ("if we're married" is more accurate than "once" I guess, but I think this is highly likely). She works too, hopefully I can convince her to buy a new car herself without my financial input (but being that she isn't worried about it being unsafe, it is reliable, she isn't into cars and it is my idea, that will be a very hard sell).
-Ring: Selling about half of my guns will get me around $2K +/- a few hundred. I'd rather not take from the money that will go into a downpayment on a house to buy a ring. A friend has an uncle in diamond wholesaling and he thinks his uncle will give me a deal, if not some people I've known for years (parents of a friend) own a jewelry store. At internet prices (there are reputable diamond merchants on the web) $2K will get a decent diamond (not great, but good), and with my friend's uncle or my other friend's parents I might do better. Thus, with only a little taken out of the house money I can get a pretty decent ring if I sell some guns.
The guns can be replaced later. She agrees with my philosophy that we each should have a small amount of money ($20-40 each a week) that is ours to do with as we please. She is ok with guns. It might take some time, but any I want to replace I can (none are particularly rare). I probably would eventually replace the AR and one of the .357s, but otherwise I doubt I'd even bother replacing them anyway (well, replacing with duplicates anyway, for most I would probably buy something in the same catagory but different models).
Anyway, I am interested in what you would do with similar scenarios. Most have answered that way. Many have and then commented on my specifics. Some almost seem to have tried to engage me in debate. What I most want is, what would you do facing these choices?
ksnecktieman
Member
Like I said Chaim,,, you have to make the decision, and we do not know your priorities, at the very least, save one defensive weapon. If you can not defend her, you do not deserve her,,,,,,, explain that to her and she will accept it.
Most guns are toys, noise makers, paper punchers, and investments, decide what yours are and act accordingly.
Before you buy a ring? Go to your local pawn shops, look at what they have, and for how much money, I am not saying to buy there,,,,,,, but there are no new diamonds,,, they are all used,,,,, The jewelry chains will sell you a ring for 3,000$ that you can buy from a pawn shop for 300$. You would not buy a car if you did not understand the difference in a V8 and a four cylinder. So are you going to buy a ring with less understanding? Shop around.
Most guns are toys, noise makers, paper punchers, and investments, decide what yours are and act accordingly.
Before you buy a ring? Go to your local pawn shops, look at what they have, and for how much money, I am not saying to buy there,,,,,,, but there are no new diamonds,,, they are all used,,,,, The jewelry chains will sell you a ring for 3,000$ that you can buy from a pawn shop for 300$. You would not buy a car if you did not understand the difference in a V8 and a four cylinder. So are you going to buy a ring with less understanding? Shop around.
Another option you may not have thought of is to let her drive "your new car"as it's only a few months old. Most couples do have the woman driving the newest car and the man getting by with the older model. That part of your problem could have already been solved leaving just the ring and housing to focus on.
cracked butt
Member
Chaim- don't feel too bad about the expensive gift thing. I have a good friend who is Hmong, about 35 years old, and cannot afford to get married. He told me that in his culture, a man would have to pay a bride's family a pretty large sum of money- he told me about $15,000 for an 'acceptable' bride and $20,000+ for a really good one
He said then there are 2 or 3 different wedding receptions/parties that he must pay for that would run into the thousands of $$'s each.
I wanted to tell him that American girls are initially cheaper, but I respect him too much to give him a hard time about his culture, though most other things aren't off limits
He said then there are 2 or 3 different wedding receptions/parties that he must pay for that would run into the thousands of $$'s each.
I wanted to tell him that American girls are initially cheaper, but I respect him too much to give him a hard time about his culture, though most other things aren't off limits
45Badger
Member
This is too good to pass up!
First the serious answer-
Live within your means. This means making choices. 'nuff said.
Now the fun part-
Buy her an expensive 1911!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A gift from your heart, she can protect herself with it, you can spend time together as a family practicing with it, etc, etc , etc......
First the serious answer-
Live within your means. This means making choices. 'nuff said.
Now the fun part-
Buy her an expensive 1911!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A gift from your heart, she can protect herself with it, you can spend time together as a family practicing with it, etc, etc , etc......
Well let me be the first to wish you the best of luck and congradulations on all the changes taking place in your life.
I hope all your decisions have been wise.
One note on the ring: go all out on it. You both will be happy for a lifetime if you make a serious sacrifice now. With guns, some of us put form over function. Most of us like our guns to look as good as they perform. The only purpose (other than what it represents to the two of you) of a ring is to look good. So, get one that looks good: she will have it for a lifetime and display it on her hand every day for the rest of her life: that deserves some sacrifice.
I hope all your decisions have been wise.
One note on the ring: go all out on it. You both will be happy for a lifetime if you make a serious sacrifice now. With guns, some of us put form over function. Most of us like our guns to look as good as they perform. The only purpose (other than what it represents to the two of you) of a ring is to look good. So, get one that looks good: she will have it for a lifetime and display it on her hand every day for the rest of her life: that deserves some sacrifice.
BryanP
Member
House - Rent until you can save money for a good down payment. There's no shame in renting an apartment. I love being a homeowner but it's something you build up to (so to speak ...).
Ring - Buy what you can afford. If what you can afford is a plain gold band then that should be good enough. If you can afford better, that's great. Back when I got married we were both rather poor - each of us now makes more money than the two of us put together back then. You will buy her a nicer ring later.
Car - Do a little research and pay cash for a good used car. $5000 cash will get you a decent car in the 5-6 year old range. If you get it checked out all that BS about "buying someone else's problems" is just that. If you have to put $1200 a year total in to maintenance (you won't have to spend that much if you are careful) that's basically a $100 car payment. Show me where you can get a decent car for $100 a month.
I speak from experience. In 2000 I bought a 1994 Chevy Corsica for $4300 in cash. It had 89,000 miles on it. I spent another $700 getting various minor problems fixed and putting new tires on it. At the time (until I changed employers about 6 months ago) I had a job that involved driving my own car. A lot. One to three thousand miles per month not counting personal driving. That car is now 10 years old, has 235,000 miles on it and is still a rock-solid reliable car. Why? Because I don't skimp on the maintenance. When it needs maintenance I get it done. You can research reliability records for particular models and look up individual vehicle history online these days. It's a big help.
If you don't have to drive as much as I did then your car will probably look a little nicer - I was more interested in price and reliability than appearance.
Bryan
Ring - Buy what you can afford. If what you can afford is a plain gold band then that should be good enough. If you can afford better, that's great. Back when I got married we were both rather poor - each of us now makes more money than the two of us put together back then. You will buy her a nicer ring later.
Car - Do a little research and pay cash for a good used car. $5000 cash will get you a decent car in the 5-6 year old range. If you get it checked out all that BS about "buying someone else's problems" is just that. If you have to put $1200 a year total in to maintenance (you won't have to spend that much if you are careful) that's basically a $100 car payment. Show me where you can get a decent car for $100 a month.
I speak from experience. In 2000 I bought a 1994 Chevy Corsica for $4300 in cash. It had 89,000 miles on it. I spent another $700 getting various minor problems fixed and putting new tires on it. At the time (until I changed employers about 6 months ago) I had a job that involved driving my own car. A lot. One to three thousand miles per month not counting personal driving. That car is now 10 years old, has 235,000 miles on it and is still a rock-solid reliable car. Why? Because I don't skimp on the maintenance. When it needs maintenance I get it done. You can research reliability records for particular models and look up individual vehicle history online these days. It's a big help.
If you don't have to drive as much as I did then your car will probably look a little nicer - I was more interested in price and reliability than appearance.
Bryan
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