What would you do in this situation?

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Prevention:
1) stay away from sketchy characters
2) sit with your back to a wall or a window, close to an exit

Reaction:
1) Grab the ladies and leave
2) If #1 can't be done, take solid cover under the assumption bullets will fly next
3) Never step into crossfire
 
Biker, what ever happened to the chrome plated transmission chains worn as belts that were standard equipment for most 'Motor Cycle Enthusiasts"?:evil:
Jim
 
JMusic said:
Biker, what ever happened to the chrome plated transmission chains worn as belts that were standard equipment for most 'Motor Cycle Enthusiasts"?:evil:
Jim
Too obvious. We now wear a spur on the left boot which, rumor has it, makes a great punching weapon when held in the fist. However, like the chain belt, the spur is really a fashion statement.
We have spurs, long hair and beards, black leather and we ride Harleys.
Ya gotta be a non-conformist to be a real biker.
:neener:
Biker;)
 
sketchy characters....

CAnnoneer said:
Prevention:
1) stay away from sketchy characters
2) sit with your back to a wall or a window, close to an exit

Well thats always the trick isn't it? Sketchy characters dont walk around with a sign over their heads proclaiming them thus. Add to that, as much as we like to think we are special, sometimes a seat next to a wall or window or even a exit, just simply isnt availible to use at a public location.

On the sketchy character aspect, I really dont post a whole lot here and I tend to keep to myself but I am going to go ahead and tell you a story. From 1994-1997 I was part of the DoD Space Command HRT teams. Now people tend to think, "Wow, thats like NASA and stuff, why do they have a HRT Team?" Well I will tell you why Scientists and other professionals are just as capable of being the "sketchy characters" as much as your average person you assume is a sketchy character because of :dress, race, mannerism and behaviors.

In 1996 we had a call out to LaRC( Langley Research Center) for a baricade/hostage situation concerning a fairly well respected character, who had lost his 100k+ a year contract as a 1 meter titanium modeler simply because NASA decided to start using carbon fiber modeling for wind tunnel testing.

Imagine yourself as a man, who for the last 15 years has lived a very comfortable life because you are specialized in a application that really only has one market and one use, then be told we are phasing this out. You have no other marketable skills, and no where else is hiring a 1 meter tianium modelers( ya dont see that advertised much in the paper do ya?) So much for the comfortable life now huh? Anyway to make a long story short, somehow in the checmical depths of his mind he came to the conclusion he could get his job back by holding his office hostage.( Dont ask me to explain how he came up with that) Now this was a person, with no criminal background, no psychological history, no drug or acohol history. Something in his brain just went click and there ya go. He was just your average Engineer type, wore a suit, went to church, popular at the office parties kind thing.

After 6 hours of negotion, the assualt team had to go in and pull him out, it wasnt clean, it wasnt easy but everyone lived and we all went home.

I guess the point of this whole rambling story is, I cringe every time I see someone post about looking out for shady characters and such. Everyone is capable of violence, be it Joe Banker in the armani, or Dj Snazzy P in Urbanstreet wear, from the homeless guy in the alley, to the soccer mom who has been poked one to many times. Yes you can look at a person and say that person looks shady, he/she might be up to something, but that same shady looking person might be the one who comes in as your back up when things go pear shaped.
 
Echo Tango said:
Sketchy characters dont walk around with a sign over their heads proclaiming them thus.

No, but many identify themselves to a vigilant observer by manners, attitude, location, carriage, habits, etc. pax has posted some links to a site discussing the five steps etc.

sometimes a seat next to a wall or window or even a exit, just simply isnt availible to use at a public location.

More often than not, it is. In 80% of the cases, waiters can offer a range of seating options. Then again, I avoid crowded places.

Now this was a person, with no criminal background, no psychological history, no drug or acohol history. Something in his brain just went click and there ya go. He was just your average Engineer type.

That proves that there is no such thing as absolute predictability or infallible methodology. Still, simple awareness and profiling are useful in most cases.
 
Recently at a xmas party a friend of mine bought a new Harley. I really don't know the new models. It looked like a Sportster but I don't think that was the model. It had a blue tank and fenders and a 1100cc motor. Pretty bike. Not broke in yet. I used to drag race these at Norwalk raceway in Ohio, a NHRA track. We were in a heightened state of consciousness if you know what I mean. It was in his garage and he let me set on it. I asked him if I could start it and he said go ahead. I started it up droped it into 1st gear reved it up and popped the clutch leaving about a 3 ft burnout before I shut it down. It scared him to death. All the garage doors were closed. Need less to say I've been banished from his cycle. Oh well you have to have some fun. They are sure making some good bikes anymore. I'll have to fill the guys in at work about the spur thing. Take care.
Jim
 
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as regards profiling...

I think there is an old saying:

The race is not always to the swift
nor the battle to the strong, but...

that's the way to bet.

I could go on, but if you haven't gotten the point yet...
Never mind.
 
Reason to Be Armed

You will probably never know that the "normal" person standing calmly next to you is going to suddenly decide to self-destruct until it happens. Not much you can do about that except live in Condition Yellow most of the time and think defensively about your surroundings.

However, groups of young men with shaved heads and lots of tattoos and/or all wearing a common color are a pretty good indicator that they could be wound a little tighter than the little old lady greeting people at Wal-Mart.

I had just such a group almost take the front end off my Nissan as they bulled their way into heavy traffic from a McD parking lot. I didn't honk at them or make any gestures, yet they started making plenty of them at me and many of them were gang signs.

When I did not respond, they started slowing down suddenly and doing other stupid things. In the mean time, I'm doing my best to avoid an accident while looking for ANY PLACE to turn off to get away from them. I was armed, but I wanted no part of their nonsense. They finally tired of trying to intimidate me and drove off.
 
jwmoore said:
OC sounds like a good plan if they're coming your way. :evil: Otherwise, find an alternate route around the fight as you leave the area.

~W


Whoops, missed that little bit, with winter on right now eating outside isn't even on my radar. Well, then I guess if it becomes a threat to you spray away :evil:
 
If you are at a table, you can usually leave. Might have to move the table, might have to go over it, but you should be able to leave. If you are in a booth, however, you can get pinned in easily.
 
Stay out of it unless they drag you in. Then still try and stay out of it.

If you have too, make someone hurt until they stop.
 
Devonai said:
Dinner and a free show, what more do you want?

be a good witness, and offer your information to the police after the fact.

I agree with this , plus you learned to put yourself in a better spot.
I have seen this before and as long as its between them and no weapons let security or police handle it
 
What to do? I'm astonished that some have suggested intervening would be appropriate. This is nature's way of fulfilling the Darwinian imperative.
 
Bartholomew Roberts post #17
Jim March post # 18

I agree

Not long ago I just pulled into a parking slot and folks were going at it, one produced a gun, then proceeded to point gun at me and the gun would not fire while pointed at me in my vehicle. He kept racking the slide and the gun would not fire. All I did was arrive at the same time this thing broke out.

Don't go places, scan and make note of all entry/ exits and have a plan, a backup plan.

Evade.

One never know if something is a distraction for something else either.

Scan as you evade. There may be a robbery going on and not a good idea to walk smooth into that either.

In my case I evaded, observed from a safe distance, got license plates and descriptions, stole styrofoam foam cups to cover ejected ammo for LEOs to find easier and re-play this action.

CCW-ing sometimes means being a witness, observer - AFTER your personal safety and those with you are safe.

The goal is make it home each night in one pc.

You can spot a bunch of Gun Folks in a resturant, tables get combined into longer ones..everyone is seated with backs against the wall.

Makes it easier for the waitresses to serve folks .

Armed Society is a Polite Society
:D
 
I must be missing something because I don't understand your not being able to get out of there if your mom and sis did. What prevented you from following them? What prevented you from going over or under the table to get beyond the 2 guys fighting?
 
girls are the worst

You can break up two guys fighting and probably survive if you know them. But don't ever, ever, break up a guy and a gal getting after it. Especially if you don't know them and think it is the gentlemanly thing to do. Hose em down with a fire hose, call the police, anything put don't get close. The only two times I really got my butt (really my face) kicked involved trying to save a damsle, damsel(sp)....girl in distress. Both times the girl jumbed on by back, I ended up on the ground without the dude on the ground with me and the dudes punted on head. Survived both but neither one was pretty. Black eyes, sore jaw, busted nose, broken glasses. Nasty, just plain nasty. Give me two dudes over a dude and a babe anytime.:banghead:
 
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