What would you do.

[ID_shooting]

Well, I hate admitting defeat but but my Kimber is likey going back today.

The pistol has had numerous FTF, FTE and damaging brass issues. It has been worked on the gunsmiths 3 times and even sent back to Kimber once (new barrel and relapped/fitted) It still will not shoot 3 consecutive shots without a stoppage of some sort.

The dealer hase given me a choice.

1. continue to work on it, sending back to kimber or the in-house gunsmiths, what ever it takes. All on his dime of course cuz that is the way he is.

or,

2. He will take it back and give me an $1100.00 shopping spree in his store. (I am sure he would just give me the cash if I asked, but he takes such good care of me I want to spend the refund back in his store so he isn't completely out)

The question is, what would you do?

I know I want a nice 1911, doesn't have to be the best, but I do not want the bottom end ither.

With the $1100.00, I know I could find a nice 1911 and have enough left over for somthing else.

In the $600.00 range, what 1911's do you guys like? What else would you buy with the left over?

 

[dakotasin]

i'd do one colt 1911, and a sig p229, 226, or p239 w/ the leftover.

i haven't had a hiccup out of my colt, and i paid ~$400 for it new (6 or 7 years ago, so it is probably around $500 now). another option is springfield's ww-2 spec gun... no problems w/ that one yet, either, though it is not as refined as my colt, and definitely not on the same level as your kimber.

but that's what i'd do... colt (or springfield), and a sig.

 

[1911Tuner]

Pukin' Kimber

Howdy ID_Shootin'...
Before ya get disgusted, how 'bout a description of those burps.

Fail to feed.

Last round? First round reload from slidelock? Rideover feed or
stem bind failure to return to battery? Does the round get into the chamber at all...or does it stop before it gets there? Nose dive into
the ramp or bullet nose against the bottom of the throat? If it
gets into the chamber, can you put it in batttery with a bump on the back of the slide...or do you have to extract/eject the round and start over?

Failure to extract/eject

Last round or at random? If it's on the last round, does the slide try to
stuff the case back into the magazine Case gets crunched where? On the side or on the mouth?

I gotta feelin' that you've got an extractor issue...Low tension or clocking in the channel. I also got me a sneakin' hunch that either your mag spring is weak or you've got stem bind...depends on exactly how the round fails to feed.

Standin' by...

Tuner

 

[ID_shooting]

OK Tuner, I guess I should have run this past you.

Here is the list.

When I first picked it up is was sweet, 300 rounds or so but it did have accuracy problems and the brass looked like I ran emery paper over it. I took it back to have the chamber polished ant the smith noticed there were chatter marks at the beginning of the rifling so we sent it back to Kimber for a new barrel. I got a call from Kimber and they said the put a new barrel in it and asked me if I wanted the customer shop to tune and lap everything and they would do for free, so I said sure.

Got the gun back a couple of weeks later and took it to the range, at that point the FTFs started, the rounds would jam up halfway into the chamber binding up underneath the extractor. back to the smith and he checked the tension and found it to be too tight, so he adjusted it and during test fire we noticed that the brass was stil being roughed up, additionally, we got a couple of the case not ejecting and being squished when the brass was brought back forward. We know that the slide fully cycled because the base of the brass was severly gouged by the ejector.

He readjusted the extractor and it seemed to work when he test fired it but still with the marred brass. He said to shoot a couple of boxes through it and see what happens. Well, it did seem to improve the feeding and extraction but still not perfect, jammed about 1 out of every 10 or so.

I took it back yet again and he polished the chamber and re did the tension and told me to go shoot it some more.

Now things have gone down hill from there. The FTF every other round is back, the bres still gets roughed up and now somthing totally new. I locked the slide back and inserted a fresh mag, I hit the release and the slide stopped about half way. I dropped the mag, cleared the chamber and locked the slide back again, with an empty gun to hit the slide release and it still sticks about halfway, if I sling-shot it, it will lock up into battery, but if I do it with the slide lock, it sticks half way. I figured it may just be dirt so I cleaned and relubbed it and it still does it.

And that is where I am right now, a gun that squishes brass, roughs it up like emery paper over the entire surface, jams with the round halfway in or the slide sticks and mt grouping from a rest is about 4 inches at 15 yards.

What you think?

 

[1911Tuner]

WOW!

Sounds like that Kimber was jinxed from go street.

First things first. Let's start with the failure to eject. Pull the extractor
and check the length of the hook. Measure the whole end of the extractor AT the tip of the hook, then measure the wall behind the hook...the area where the rim contacts...and subtract. If the hook is over .035 inch long,
and you have an extended ejector, the tip of the hook is digging into the
front of the rim, just behind the extractor groove. Gouge marks in that area
will be evident if this is it.

There's also a chance that the nose of the extractor is making hard contact
on the bevel of the extractor groove as the case tries to tiwst free from the hook. Chamber a round and pull the slide back a little to see if the front angle of the extractor is making contact there.

Move on to the fail to feed issue. Recreate the jam and look at the case
for a crescent-shaped mark just below the case mouth. If it's there, you've got stem bind. Scrape the top of the barrel throat a little with a pocketknife
and re-test to see if the problem is reduced. Polish with 600-grit paper on
a fingertip.

The stoppage from slidelock...If it happens during fire, and not from a cold reload, check to see if the firing pun stop has dropped and is caught on the hammer. If it is, install a new firing pin spring and see if it still does it.
if so, you may need a wider FP stop to get a light press-fit. If it stops on a cold reload, check to see if the bullet nose is caught on the bottom of the
barrel throat. If it is, check for the .032 gap between the top of the frame ramp and bottom of the throat. If it's not there, it will need to be set forward and the throat reshaped.

With the extractor not letting go of the case, my guess is that either the hook itself is too long, and is getting the case into a bind with the ejector...or the extractor nose is set too far forward in the extractor groove. File the front back a little to reduce the contact. If the hook is
over .035 inch, lay the hook on a stone and keep it as level as possible while sliding it back and forth sideways to shorten the hook to about .032 inch. Then, use a smooth file and follow the angle to rfeduce the flat tip of the hook a little.

it to see if it will let go. Either of these extractor issues USUALLY
result in a hard to eject live round, and ejection generally goes forward of
the gun instead of straight out or backward.

I'll be back here in an hour or so to see what you found.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[ID_shooting]

Unfortunatly, I am at work and they would object to me tinkering with my 1911 at my desk

I think the round is getting stuck in the chamber, the stem bind you refer to, When it jams, if I pull back slightly on the slide, the round snapps into place behind the ectractor and will feed.

As for the slide stoppage, it will do it on an empty gun as well, when it binds, it binds tight, I have to reaf on it to get it move back to the rear. That one I just cant firgure out.

 

[1911Tuner]

O-kay...

Not gone yet...got into another question on a PM.

When you get home, take the slide off and slip a round under the hook.
Shine a light into the area and see if the hook is bottoming out in the extractor groove. I'm about ready to bet dollars to doughnut holes that
the hook is too long. If you can't tell, chamber a round, extract it from the gun, and look to see if there's a gouge mark.

If the hook is the right length, look to see if the bottom of the hook is square and sharp. If it is, file a slight bevel there and radius it by rolling
it on a piece of 400-grit paper. If the wall is also square at the bottom edge, cut a little bevel there too, so the rim will work to cam the extractor open easier.

Run your fingernail over the firing pin hole to see if there's a burr.

Measure the width of the parallel rails at the bottom of the breechface.
If the width is under .480, it needs to be wider. About .484-.488 is good.
.490 is ideal. You'll need to remove the extractor to measure. Take a few
measuerments to make sure you get an accurate one. You'll need a dial
caliper. If it's too narrow, you'll need a file with a protected edge...no cutting teeth...to remove a little metal without marring the breechface.
Remove a little from the side opposite the extractor and try it. Then
remove about half as much from the extractor side and try it. When it
starts to feed easier, file about a 30 degree angle on the bottom corners
to help guide the rim. All you want to do is break the corners.

I'll check back later on...
Tuner

 

[Black Snowman]

What would I do? Get a CZ-97B, a CZ-75B SA, ammo, extra magazines and holsters.

When I went with my 1st 1911 pattern gun I got a Delta Elite but only after doing much research. If I was going to have a gun that heavy I wanted power to match the size

You might just exchange it for another Kimber if that's what you want (obviously that's why you bought it to start with). Even the exact same model. What are the chances 2 in a row will be lemons?

If you do trade it in, pass Tuner's advice on to the gunstore owner and if he can't get his money back from Kimber (which he should) maybe he can at least get it working well.

 

[YammyMonkey]

If you like the Kimber you might want to try another one, every company puts out a lemon here and there, doesn't mean all their products are horrible.

You could get a SA Loaded 1911 for a little over $600, mine shoots pretty well, but I still prefer my Kimber, probably familiarity and the sights mostly.

 

[Ankeny]

I'd give up on the POS and take the dealer up on the offer to refund my money, then throw my business right back in his direction.

 

[tantrix]

I'd get a Springfield Mil-Spec if you ansolutely have to go with a 1911 and you want some cash left over. Then again, my favorite handgun is the Glock 30 in .45 ACP so don't ask me which one I'd tell you to buy...

--By the way...my first post!

 

[ID_shooting]

Well Tuner, I printed out your posts and took them with me to the gun smith (I don't have the right tools for the job)

He looked everything over and while the problem wasn't what you mentioned, it did help him get down to the real issue.

Burr on slide - There was a burr on the slidein the area of the locking lugs. Burr polished off and the slide functions flawlessly.

Now comes the real fun...

During his measuring, he noticed that the barrel hood was .40 too long. He thought he might be mistaken so he had several of us check his measurments. Yep, we all concluded that the hood was too long. The was causing head space issues, this in combination with the extractor being too tight was the cause of the FTF and FTE issues.

Re-tuned the extractor and milled the hood back to speck, and the gun now cycles without stoppage.

The gun still messes up the brass and accuracy still blows so we got looking deeper, we found many burrs in the chamber, some too deep to simply polish out and we found the canber was gut .20 too deep thus not allowing for proper headspace.

Remedy, back to kimber for a new barrel and a stern letter from the shop owner.

I did however, opt for an exchange. I lost faith and trust in the piece and I know that i would never want to rely on it if my life was in danger.

I did get two new guns, I stayed with the 1911 platform and choose a Dan Wesson Pointman Major for target shooting/woods defence gun and a smith 910 for arround town carry and plinking.

Thank you for all of your knowledge, deffinatly helpfull.

 

[1911Tuner]

Kimber Woes

Dee-ay-umm! I thought Auto Ordnance built some doozies...

That pistol musta been slapped together on a Hungover Monday
by a trainee.

Hope those guys get it straightened out for ya.

Luck!
Tuner

 

[Tom C.]

The 1911 is a very simple design. There is no excuse for them not finding what is wrong with yours. I have 3 and they are among the most reliable guns I have ever seen.

 

[Ala Dan]

Another vote for the Springy Mil-Spec; if you just
got to have a 1911? If not, then I would try a
SIG-SAUER P220A in .45 ACP. Heck, you would
have enough $$$$ for a P220ST!


Disclaimer and Warning: Shooting a world class SIG SAUER handgun may get you hooked.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member