WHat would you say to this person?

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Tomekeuro85

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I have a person on another non-gun forum that claims that FOUR of his completely stock rifles shoot .25" consistently with factory non match ammo.
He claims 10 shot groups can still stay under .25".

Rem. Model 788 - 22/250
Savage 112BVSS - 25/06
Ruger M77MKIIVT - .223
Ruger #1 Special Varmint - .220 Swift

Those are the guns he claims do the grouping

It makes me laugh because he is arguing that it is my lack of skill that hinders me from getting consistent .25" groups, when in reality I have never seen a factory rifle with factory ammo shoot that good.



What do I tell someone like this?
 
I would tell him he's full of - oh, wait, Art's grammaw.... :D

Tell him to prove it.
 
I have a person on another non-gun forum that claims that FOUR of his completely stock rifles shoot .25" consistently with factory non match ammo.
He claims 10 shot groups can still stay under .25".
Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever. Anybody can say anything on the internet.
 
Tell him to rave on, as your wearing you old "BOOTS" and the depth of the crap is not an issue. You might also add that you print such humor out and take it to the office to entertain your fellow shooting team members. He'll never know the difference, and may do some entertaining back peddling.:evil:
 
I have two, exceptionally accurate rifles, all of mine being super accurate, but
ony these two could pull that off, and i would say it would be for 5 shot groups. I would proly crap my pants with nervousness trying to putt that off as i approached the 8 or 9 th shot. Only one of these rifles could do it consistently at 100 , the other one i could guaranty at 50 , but I don't know about 100.
 
Why say anything at all? If he says stuff like that about guns I'm sure he is making up a lot of other crap and the people on the other forum probably aren't buying any of what he says, anyway.
 
He could be a good shot. I had a Ruger No. 1 in .204 that shot .25" groups. I wouldn't put that past that Savage either based on what I hear online about them. The other two I haven't shot before so I can't say. But you never know....maybe he buys a rifle, and if it doesn't shoot well, sells it and gets another. If you know what to look for, and have the tools, you could actually rid out a lot of not-so-great rifles right off the bat just by looking closely.

For the record, my Cooper in .204 is a "factory" rifle and with non-match grade ammo I can shoot .25" groups. Infact, I am will to bet someone with more skill than me woould make it shoot .125" groups all day long.

But ya, 10 shot groups at under a quarter MOA is damn good by most standards.
 
At what range is he doing is shooting?
Click to expand...

A quarter MOA is a quarter MOA. Its not directly based on inches. If at 100 yards 1 MOA is -close to- 1", 200 yard 1 MOA is -close to- 2". So at 400 yards .25 MOA is closer to 1", and at 50 yards .25 MOA is around 1/8th".

EDIT:
I just realized the original post says .25" not .25 MOA. My bad. But that still stands incase anyone didn't know how it works.
 
Don't know what all the fuss is about here....ALL MY rifles, shotguns, BB guns, Milsurps, do AT LEAST 0.25" at 100 yards. Oh ya..and that is with 1950's Slavokastan ammo....you know, the non-corrosive stuff. Heck, I can do 0.125" at 100 yards with a SLINGSHOT.....ya sure, you betcha...don't ya know.:neener: My Saturn does one minute (or two tires) of coyote at 65 mph! (actually that IS true..My First Yote!!) :D
NailGun.
 
Take him to the range. Either he will chicken out, or he will show you the most accurate factory stock rifles the world has ever seen :). A trip to the range to put up or shut up usually weeds out the non-hackers and the blowhards.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
I have a person on another non-gun forum that claims that FOUR of his completely stock rifles shoot .25" consistently with factory non match ammo. He claims 10 shot groups can still stay under .25".
Click to expand...

Given the calibers, he is pretty much claiming the other nine rounds follow the first one through the same hole. Pretty darn good shooting.

It is the "non-match ammo" part of the claim that makes it outlandish.

A polite face-to-face match with anyone would pretty much put an end to it.

Have you seen this?: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165988&highlight=romak

The fun starts with post #10.
 
Perhpas this person is doing the shooting at indoor range at 25 yards.

Some don't have access to longer ranges most of the year.
 
When someone starts giving me crap about how this gun can do this or they can do that, and I KNOW they wrong or its practicly impossible. First I gently try to correct them or ask them if they meant this or whatever. If then insist on being stupid I "just smile and wave" (to quote some penguins) There aint NOTHING you can do to convence them they are wrong. Because they already have decieded that they are RIGHT. Aint' even worth trying after that.
 
Froggy I hate to call you out but this is something I read/hear often enough I'd like to take a minute to straighten out. Group size can be expressed correctly as "hole size" which is the literal major diameter of an aggregate group or as the "group size" which refers to the center to center major diameter of aggreagate group size. Group size is easily figured by measuring the largest diameter and deducting the bullet diameter. If the target was set at 100 yards this convieniently becomes the Minute Of Angle accuracy of that rifle for that target. At least ten times a year someone will claim that a .50 cal can't shoot 1/4 MOA which is stupid. All targets should be read in a fashion which negates the effect of bullet diameter so that relevant accuracy can be assessed across the board. More to the point, measuring the center to center distance is of greater importance because the tip of the projectile is what we're trying to guide to the mark. Last year I ran into a regular Einstein who maintained that MOA was measured by taking the largest diameter and deducting 1/2 the bullet diameter. It seems no matter how simple something is, people will step up to make it complicated.
 
Rockstar is of course correct.

The real question we're trying to solve here is how to get people of this sort to put up their money in a reliably collectable manner in order to Darwinize their finances in an orderly fashion. Unfortunately the wilder the claim the less likely that they are good for their bets....
 
Why say anything to him? Do you really think that if you can get him to admit that his rifles don't shoot that well, he'll suddenly become a font of useful information?
 
I have had all kinds of guys make outrageous claims about how good they are, and then when I take them to the range or hunting, the have a 'bad' day.

I'd be very inclined to believe at LEAST what rockstar is saying, he's not measuring from the center, he's measuring the distance between the holes.

I am not nearly the rifleman I want to be, but I have had a Remington 700 VS in .308, and a Remington 700 VSSF in 22-250 with 3 lb triggers, that will shoot .5 in at 100 yards. If I were a better marksman, and bothered to get picky with the loads, they might be better. I'm honestly thinking, that's about as good as it gets without starting to spend real money.
 
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