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What's a good AR Match setup?

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TooTaxed

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I watched a combat-style rifle match recently at Fort Benning and am considering getting back into it...problems:
1. I don't have a suitable rifle.
2. Due to my 68-years, I'm pretty well constrained to an AR with optical sights (though I've always liked the SA M1A's). Though I used to shoot iron sights to 1,000 yds, my eyes simply don't focus well on iron sights anymore.
3. I'm retired, with no pension. Would like to set up as pennywise as possible...but can't justify more than about $1,500 ready to shoot.
4. I require sub-minute of angle accuracy...1/2 minute would be nice!

I see new Bushmaster and Olympic Arms flattop match AR rifles on the INET auctions ranging from about $800 to $1,000...18" to 20" match barrels, free-floating handguards. Any thing wrong with these makes? What glass sights should I look for, considering rapid target acquisition at different ranges? Considering my cost limitations (or slightly over!), what would be your dream package?

I have a preban Colt SP1 Car 15 in storage out of state (due to my previous residence in California!)...guess I could consider a match-grade upper, but might need additional trigger work.:confused:
 
When you say combat style match I assume you mean IDPA style action and a high round count. Often, sub-moa accuracy and reliability are mutually exclusive. That's something to consider. You can have the most accurate rifle at the match, but if it don't go boom...

Rock River Arms guns seem to find the middle ground in this area. Most are right at 1 MOA and most will run all day long. The one thing you might consider is swapping out the entire bolt carrier group for a Colt or LMT. Other than that, RRA should meet your needs.

Optics is a personal thing. ACOGs are out of your price range, so that leaves the EOTech and Aimpoint really. Both are equally reliable for the type of task you are looking at. The Aimpoint has a slight edge for "life depends on it" situations, but the EOTech is generally regarded as being faster. Both are in the same price range, with the EOTech being a bit cheaper due to the built in mount. I'd look for a used Aimpoint and stick it in a Larue mount.
 
Within the environment of a 3Gun or IDPA style match, reliability and 1/2 MOA accuracy are not mutually exclusive. JP will build you reliable rifle that will shoot 1/4- 1/2 MOA with good ammo.

But can you shoot 1/2 MOA after running through a stage for 60 seconds?

In reality, no 3Gun match I've been to (SMM3G 2004, RM3G 2003, local RM3G matches throughout the year) has require anything close to even 1MOA. At SMM3G, you had mid size poppers at 300-400 yards, and at RM3G-2003, you had 12-14" plates at about 400 yards. That's only 3MOA. My point is that for action shooting, a 1-1.5MOA rifle is good enough. Yeah, I love shooting a 1/4 MOA rifle instead, but that'sa luxery.

It would be better to spend the money on the right barrel & compensator setup, and good optics. The TA11 ACOG rules 3Gun for speed and has enough precision within 300 yards.

My suggestion would be: a 18-20" barrel with Hbar or lighter profile. A good compensator on the muzze: JP BC Comp, the Miculek Comp, the Triangle Shooting Sports (Benny Hill) Comp, or the new MSTN/PRI "QC" Comp. Full rifle length gas system. A good single or two stage trigger based on your preference. Trijicon ACOG TA11 for optics.

-z

EDIT: for cheaper magnified optics, a Leupold 1.5-5X is a good choice, or the new IOR CQB model. If you don't need magnification, just use the military Aimpoint M2.
 
I am not sure what you are talking about, do you mean matches where you run and shoot from behind cover? If so then what these guys told you was good stuff. I know that Ft. Benning has a LOT of Highpower going on (it is the home of the AMU) so if you're talking about that, let me know.
 
Best as I can remember, the targets consisted of a sillouette head at 75-yd, half a sillouette at 100yd, and sillouettes at 175 and 300-yds. Three timed courses of fire...something like five shots standing at 75 yd, reload and fire five rounds any position except prone at 175-yd. Five shots standing against barricade at 100-yd, reload and five shots prone at 175. Five shots standing at 100, reload and five shots prone at 300.

That is probably not quite accurate, but it looked like fun! Rifles were about equally split between ARs and M1As.
 
Hmm, not sure what that could have been, other than a local informal match.

I always urge people to learn a lot about a shooting sport BEFORE they buy a gun because if you buy first, you have about a 90% chance of getting the wrong thing.

Tell us what you want to do, and we'll help guide you. Do you want to run/move and shoot at moving targets? I'm sure there is probably a lot of 3-gun in the south. I know there is a ton of HP in that area, but you are not moving and shooting.
 
Colt Elete Tactical

I've run across a Colt Match Target Elete Tactical .223, 20" SS HBAR 1:9 SS bbl, free-floating alum handguard, Flat-Top on receiver only, for $750...is this an OK deal?
 
Bob Jones makes a rear diopter lens that drops into a hooded rear aperature of a NM service rifle sight. From what I hear, it will definitely bring the front sight back into focus. Service rifle legal (even for EIC Matches, but not for the JC Garand Match).

http://www.bjonessights.com/
 
Steve, I did indeed ponder your question about choosing the sport before selecting a rifle...problem is, I like to shoot for fun to 400-yd from the bench (500 with .30 cals), and I'd like to start shooting timed fire courses involving multiple positions firing at multiple targets at different ranges! I hope that I'd be able to use the same rifle for both, with different sights.

I also have a question about the EOTech-style non-magnifying sights, which I haven't tried, but seem to be popular for the timed-fire courses...are they best mounted forward on the rifle or is a receiver mount OK?:confused: I've seen both...
 
To focus a bit further, this new rifle would primarily be used for the timed fire competition, as I have a number of scoped rifles I like to shoot from the bench as the mood suits...a CETME, .30-06 Springfield sporter, 6.5 x 55 Swede sporter, SKS. Iron sights: 45-70 Sharps, original 6.5 Jap Arisaka, and .22-LR. Will have my pre-ban Colt SP-1 Car-15 as soon as I retreive it from Indiana. :D
 
You can hope in one hand...

I'm sure you know the rest.

I know countless individuals who bought the wrong gun for the game that they evenually took up. They inevitably sold their guns for less than they had in them and bought the right one.

I URGE you to keep your money in your wallet and seek out your game of choice. You will find people who will guide you to the right purchase from there.
 
Considering I'm looking for a rifle for the above-described timed fire competition, how does the above-described Colt Match Target Elete fit the needs? I need to decide if I want this rifle quickly, or it won't be available. What MOA accuracy could I expect from this rifle (the Colt website doesn't say...). Note that this rifle has a rail mounted only over the receiver...how appropriate for mounting an EOTech-style non-magnifying sight?

If this rifle isn't particularly well suited, what should I look for in general or specifically...rifle and sight characteristics?:confused:
 
For roughly the same money, you could pick up a rifle better suited to what you are doing, so no....I wouldn't consider it such a great deal that I jumped right on it.
 
Fix, for roughly the same money, exactly what would that rifle be? Do you concur with Zak's post above as to characteristics and sights?
 
I do not entirely agree with his choices, nor do I actively disagree. It sounds to me like you are looking for a general purpose carbine that can make hits out to 400 but is still handy for close in work when moving. I think you should be looking for a 16" flat top straight off the shelf and not a fancy custom. You seem to have moved towards the EOTech, and that is a fine sight. My personal choices would be:

1. RRA 16" A4 midlength with Colt BCG
2: Colt MT6400C
3: Whatever the guy who is winning is using. :D

You probably should go to the next match and finger a few of the competitors guns to see what feels right.
 
To be clear, my recommendations were for 3Gun-type "action" competition with common 3Gun-type rules (USPSA rifle, IMGA, RM3G, SMM3G, etc)... not NRA/CMP High-Power, not timed fire from a bench, not billy-joe-bob's ad-hoc rifle match.

The advantage of an 18" or 20" barrel with a rifle-length gas system, over a 16" are: more velocity, better trajectory; the rifle-length (and mid-length) gas systems are more reliable than the carbine-length gas systems; but more importantly, the rifle-length gas system upsets the gun much less than the mid- or carbine-length gas systems due to lower port pressure; finally, the 16" will have more muzzle blast than the 18 or 20".

Unless you are doing real CQB, there's no practical difference in manuverability of a 16" over an 18". Anything heavier than an Hbar barrel profile is a waste (you can get the additional accuracy with a higher quality barrel of lighter profile anyway).

-z
 
Now I do agree with what Zak just said, with the exception of the 20" part. I think the 20 is too long. 18 really is the best compromise, but that pretty much puts you in the custom camp as there are not many factory offerings in that length. Thus my recommendation for the 16" mid length. FWIW, you can pick up a stock RR lower for 250 and a 16" middie upper for 400 bringing you under the 700 for the aforementioned Colt.

Keep in mind that Zak is more in the know than I with regards to these type of competitions. I shoot in them 2-3 times a year, but with guns built largely for fighting rather than specifically for competition. So you probably should lean more towards his advice in this scenario.
 
You can use an EoTech mounted on the receiver or farther forward. Which one works better depends on the individual shooter's preference.
 
Quintin, you are right! The Tactical match is the one I watched at Ft. Benning's English Range.

Thanks to the posters to my question! I'm learning a lot, and am still looking for a rifle.:D
 
Nope, that's not Highpowerish, but tactical is close.

TooTaxed, I'm glad you're "still looking." That colt is one of a few hundred thousand on the earth, so you're not missing out. Like Zak and I both have said, you should go to the match and just ask around. More than likely someone will let you shoot the match with their gear and help you with your own selection.
 
The folks at English Range are good people. I'll second and third the comments to show up and ask around. Scoped flat top ARs and .308 bolt guns are probably the two most popular platforms for their tac rifle series.

If I wasn't so danged busy, I'd get out there myself. That and I suck, but anyways...:eek:
 
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