So I was resizing a few rifle cases today and noticed a problem. I want to first start off by saying I'm using a RCBS lube pad to lube the cases and RCBS lube and using a LEE die. I probably overlubed them slightly just because it came out a little too much. I ran a couple of cases through the resizing die and noticed it was leaving dimples in the shoulders of the cases. So I wiped excess lube off of a couple with a rag and ran them through and it still did it. So then I took the die apart and stuffed a rag inside of it and cleaned it. I put it back together and went back to resizing. I wiped the excess lube off of the cases before running them through the sizer. I went through about 30-35 pieces and then noticed it did it again on one of them and put dimples in the shoulder. I took the die apart again and cleaned it again. I put it back together and tried to resize my last case and noticed even on a clean die this time it slightly dimpled the shoulder? Any tips on what's going on? I figured by wiping excess lube off, that it shouldn't be doing this.
What's going on with my die?
- Thread starter slowr1der
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hoghunting
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It seems there is still too much lube. I never used the lube pad, just the spray-on lubes. It's worked perfectly for forming brass and resizing.
hiawatha
Member
I can't tell from your original post whether you cleaned the expander ball when you took the die apart. If not, try that and see if it makes a difference. What caliber are you sizing?
With the RCBS pad you don't need to paste it up with lube as if you were hand polishing a car. A little bit drizzled in a lazy S over the pad is enough. If you have too much lube, wipe it off the pad with a rag. The case only needs a super-thin film. Roll a half-dozen or so cases onto the pad, without getting lube on the shoulders.
Here's another possibility:
Many resize dies have a small bleed hole drilled into the body.
I'm guessing this is to let pressure escape.
Try sloshing your die in solvent to clean any lube out of this hole and give it another try.
As an afterthought, I imagine your resize die is properly setup.
Here's another possibility:
Many resize dies have a small bleed hole drilled into the body.
I'm guessing this is to let pressure escape.
Try sloshing your die in solvent to clean any lube out of this hole and give it another try.
As an afterthought, I imagine your resize die is properly setup.
Lube dents. There should be no reason to wipe off excess lube. Lube the pad with a few drops of lube. Smear it around with your fingers till it is almost gone. Roll the case over the pad gently so as not to push the case deep into the pad. Pushing to hard will lube the shoulder, bad Juju. Lube the case body and keep it off the shoulder and you should be fine.
Lube dents are not caused by "too much lube" but rather misplaced lube, keep it off the shoulder.
Lube dents are not caused by "too much lube" but rather misplaced lube, keep it off the shoulder.
James2
Member
Whenever I have seen that it comes around to too much lube.
steve4102 and I must have been writing at the same time. He brings up a good point.
steve4102 and I must have been writing at the same time. He brings up a good point.
243winxb
Member
Every 3 or 4th or 5th case, size without lube. Cleans out excess lube. Go by feel, do not stick a case in the die. RCBS dies have a vent hole for air and excess lube.
USSR
Member
slowr1der,
Ditch the lube and lube pad, and buy a tin of Imperial Sizing Die Wax. Then just wipe one finger across the wax and wipe it on halfway down the case and across the case mouth if you are using an expander ball. There is no need to apply any lube to the case shoulder. Why on earth anyone is using sticky, messy lubes in the 21st century is beyond me.
Don
Ditch the lube and lube pad, and buy a tin of Imperial Sizing Die Wax. Then just wipe one finger across the wax and wipe it on halfway down the case and across the case mouth if you are using an expander ball. There is no need to apply any lube to the case shoulder. Why on earth anyone is using sticky, messy lubes in the 21st century is beyond me.
Don
I do not lube the neck, I do not lube the shoulder and I do not believe the vent hole is designed to discharge excess lube, back to the instructions: Do not lube the neck (outside), Do not lube the shoulder.
The case displaces air in the die when the ram is raised, when the case is lowered a vacuum is created between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the die, the vent hole could aid in preventing a vacuum and allow air to escape that could get trapped as the case is raised.
It is possible to compress air, air is a fluid, air will flow, lube is a solid, it will flow, it is a liquid but it can not be compressed, think about it, can lube flow fast enough through the small 'air' vent hole to get out of the way before it creates a hydraulic lock and thus put dimples in the brass, and then there is the 'go ahead, shoot-um, the dents will pop out'.
F. Guffey
The case displaces air in the die when the ram is raised, when the case is lowered a vacuum is created between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the die, the vent hole could aid in preventing a vacuum and allow air to escape that could get trapped as the case is raised.
It is possible to compress air, air is a fluid, air will flow, lube is a solid, it will flow, it is a liquid but it can not be compressed, think about it, can lube flow fast enough through the small 'air' vent hole to get out of the way before it creates a hydraulic lock and thus put dimples in the brass, and then there is the 'go ahead, shoot-um, the dents will pop out'.
F. Guffey
Maj Dad
Member
+1 On the Spray-On Lube
I've been using my lube pad for over 40 years, and yes, you can get too much lube on cases with it. I learned long ago to go gentle and avoid excess, as others noted. I use it for smaller numbers of case - 20 or so - but I like the spray on lubes for lots of cases, like 30 carbine, 5.56, 7.62 etc. Goes on effortlessly, and again, if applied sparingly it will give you excellent results.
I've been using my lube pad for over 40 years, and yes, you can get too much lube on cases with it. I learned long ago to go gentle and avoid excess, as others noted. I use it for smaller numbers of case - 20 or so - but I like the spray on lubes for lots of cases, like 30 carbine, 5.56, 7.62 etc. Goes on effortlessly, and again, if applied sparingly it will give you excellent results.
So I did some more playing with it and it is a lube dimple problem. Now the downside, is after tumbling the cases to remove the lube, I realized a few more have these dimples than I originally thought. I see that you guys say to just shoot them to get the dimples out, but my question is, can I expect them to shoot the same as the rest? I thought I read a post somewhere one time stating that someone shot a case with a dimple in the shoulder thinking it wouldn't matter, but that it hit several inches off. I'm just wondering if I need to just use this for plinking cans, or if it's fine to just toss it in with the rest of my hunting ammo.
slowr1dier,
I hang the shoulders of the case over the edge of the lube pad to prevent lube from getting on the case near the shoulder.
You really do not need much lubricant on the pad. Experience will help guide you as to how much lube to apply.
As 243winxb says, you can run dry cases through to get rid of excess lube. Depending upon how wet the lube pad is, I may run a dry case every other case or two or three dry cases to every lubed case. Go by feel and err on running more lubricated cases than not till you get the feel.
Imperial Sizing Wax works great but I'm not completely converted to it yet. It is trading a sticky mess of one kind for another. I do lubricate the inside of the case necks with Imperial. About every fourth or fifth case or so. Just don't get any on the outside of the neck.
The spray on lubricants just don't work for me with rifle cases. Besides, I don't think the spray on lubricants are very cost effective. Too much waste.
I shoot the cases with neck dents. I guess I have not paid too much attention as to whether they have a major impact on accuracy.
Hope this helps.
I hang the shoulders of the case over the edge of the lube pad to prevent lube from getting on the case near the shoulder.
You really do not need much lubricant on the pad. Experience will help guide you as to how much lube to apply.
As 243winxb says, you can run dry cases through to get rid of excess lube. Depending upon how wet the lube pad is, I may run a dry case every other case or two or three dry cases to every lubed case. Go by feel and err on running more lubricated cases than not till you get the feel.
Imperial Sizing Wax works great but I'm not completely converted to it yet. It is trading a sticky mess of one kind for another. I do lubricate the inside of the case necks with Imperial. About every fourth or fifth case or so. Just don't get any on the outside of the neck.
The spray on lubricants just don't work for me with rifle cases. Besides, I don't think the spray on lubricants are very cost effective. Too much waste.
I shoot the cases with neck dents. I guess I have not paid too much attention as to whether they have a major impact on accuracy.
Hope this helps.
Maj Dad
Member
If you're shooting the Palma Matches, you'd want to segregate the dented necks. Otherwise, load & shoot them normally. I have never noticed any difference.
Thanks guys. I tried a couple of them out today and they shot to the same spot, and the same groups I got with the other ammo.
I did wonder about them at first. The first shot I shot hit about 2" left. The second shot I couldn't even find on the paper. I walked out to the target only to notice that the second shot had gone in the same hole as the first and made the hole slightly bigger. I then tried a couple more without dimples and noticed it was clearly shooting 2" to the left, but was still shooting it's usual 1 hole groups. I adjust the scope over and it started putting them all in the bullseye once again. So now I'm not sure if the scope is bad and loosing zero, or if it's from where I took the forearm off. I know removing the forearm can change the zero of a rifle, but I've never had it change that much. I just put this scope on last weekend as a temporary scope. It's a crappy cheapo Bushnell that I keep as a spare, but the glass is decent and it's always worked in the past. I put it on to use it while my Leupold is back to Leupold for repair.
So now I guess I have to figure out if the scope lost zero because of me removing and reinstalling the forearm, or if the scope is bad. I did bump it around fairly hard after zeroing it today, then shot a few more rounds and they all still hit right in the bullseye, so it didn't seem like the scope was moving from getting bumped around. At least it still shoots these shells well, and removed the dimples from all of the ones I fired.
I did wonder about them at first. The first shot I shot hit about 2" left. The second shot I couldn't even find on the paper. I walked out to the target only to notice that the second shot had gone in the same hole as the first and made the hole slightly bigger. I then tried a couple more without dimples and noticed it was clearly shooting 2" to the left, but was still shooting it's usual 1 hole groups. I adjust the scope over and it started putting them all in the bullseye once again. So now I'm not sure if the scope is bad and loosing zero, or if it's from where I took the forearm off. I know removing the forearm can change the zero of a rifle, but I've never had it change that much. I just put this scope on last weekend as a temporary scope. It's a crappy cheapo Bushnell that I keep as a spare, but the glass is decent and it's always worked in the past. I put it on to use it while my Leupold is back to Leupold for repair.
So now I guess I have to figure out if the scope lost zero because of me removing and reinstalling the forearm, or if the scope is bad. I did bump it around fairly hard after zeroing it today, then shot a few more rounds and they all still hit right in the bullseye, so it didn't seem like the scope was moving from getting bumped around. At least it still shoots these shells well, and removed the dimples from all of the ones I fired.
gamestalker
member
That is typical of what's refered to as lube dents. Too much lube, and or, getting it on the shoulder will cause this to happen. The first lube I used was in fact the RCBS and I hated it. I switched to Lee which was much better, and then a spray on lube and have not looked back. Just make sure you let the spray on lube dry for a good 10 or 15 minutes before starting to run them through the die.
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