What's in your 45?

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Apocalypse-Now said:
hydrashocks are an antiquated jhp design that aren't even considered acceptable for duty by ballistics experts when compared to the plethora of more modern designs that perform better.
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Aren't even considered acceptable??? That's ridiculous!! In the worst case, it doesn't expand and thus becomes a plain ol' 230gr hardball, which is still a manstopper.

And how exactly did it become outdated?? If ballistics tests showed that it expanded reliably 20 years ago, what happened in the ensuing years that changed that? Did human flesh evolve into something else??
 
I don't think it's fair to say they're unacceptable. They're just more prone to core-jacket separation and not expanding reliably compared to new designs. I can't see any problem using them. If you can get something better for a similar price, though, I say go for it.
 
Aren't even considered acceptable??? That's ridiculous!! In the worst case, it doesn't expand and thus becomes a plain ol' 230gr hardball, which is still a manstopper.
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why would you use old technology that's twice as expensive as much better performing HST? :confused:


acceptable duty loads for.45 ACP according to dr. gary roberts, who is a paid consultant to the FBI and many other LE/military agencies around the world in matters of wound ballistics:
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
 
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My question is in the age we live in why anyone would carry factory rounds for self-defense. I choose the bullet, the brass, how hard a primer, the powder, the ballistics and the methodology with which to assemble it. I've found that mine don't fail and the rest of the range tells me theirs do far too often.
 
Apocalypse-Now said:
why would you use old technology that's twice as expensive as much better performing HST? :confused:
Click to expand...

That's not the question. You said they were considered unacceptable. At the bare minimum, its a GI hardball round that *might* expand.

But the thing that gets me most is, it doesn't matter what advances in bullet design come along. If hydrashoks have been proven to expand reliably (and there is tons of data to suggest this), then that's not going to change. In other words, fancy new bullets might move it from the #1 position to the #2 or #3, but its never going to get thrown off the heap entirely.

And besides all that, I did a small bit of research on this not too long ago. I found that while hydrashoks weren't always the #1 bullet for a given caliber, they were consistently in the top 5. One simply cannot go wrong with them. The Post is the Most!

But then you list off Gary Roberts' top pics of "acceptable duty loads", and you have hydrashoks on there twice... Talk about :confused:.
 
RA45TP is in the pipe, the rest are WWB 230gr. hardball for Glock 21s and my 1911s. The WWB I shoot with at the range are what I am accustomed to and am most accurate with. As LE the most important aspect of on-duty shooting is for stopping threat with CNS shots, to the head. With practice of stress fire even repeated head shots are easily obtainable-with practice. That practice comes with affordable ammo.. Not too many bad guys need more than one round of anything above .40 to be stopped. If your agency will give you a case of Ranger to shoot with on the range, load with Ranger!

How you like the M&P so far?
 
I've only shot my M&P once and I put about 150 rounds through it. But I enjoyed shooting it. If I pointed it somewhere, thats where it shot. I found myself more accurate with it than most of the 1911s I've shot. And it feels great in hand. I was also looking at a glock 21, but I found the grip too big. I shoot the M&P with the small palm swell.
 
Originally, Black Hills 230gr JHP +P.

Started handloading my own after that but I didn't bring my reloading equipment up to Alaska, and I don't have my data with me either.

Went to Buffalo Bore 230gr JHP +P since then.
 
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP


Winchester Ranger T is good, but rare. Rem Goldensabre wasn't bonded when Roberts did his testing. But I'm sure the new Bonded 230 Goldensabre would work well.
 
I like my Springfield Champion .45; I have carried it at times without a holster carries perfectly in several of my summer shorts which have double pockets. Can't see it does not print.
I like Hornady JHP.
 
Numero Uno, try some of the recommendations out to make sure they work with your gun. Also, what is accurate with your gun is important.

My personal preference is 230 gr in weight, The newer 230 JHPs are fine, but I don't care for the lighter bullets. Even 230 FMJ is okay. Expansion - you already have .45.

Just my opinion from reading, I haven't done a lot of testing.
 
Cowboy, I agree that i already have a big bullet. But I figure any advantage I can get, I'll take. What would dissuade me from a JHP vs FMJ is how they stack up against a bullet proof vest. Now I am not talking some mall ninja home invasion fantasy. But if I do get a job as an armored car driver, I wonder how many robbers would have a bullet proof vest? I've tried doing research (google) but came across nothing useful.

Jack, absolutely a happy customer. So far, so good.
 
acceptable duty loads for.45 ACP according to Dr. Gary Roberts, who is a paid consultant to the FBI and many other LE/military agencies around the world in matters of wound ballistics:
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
Click to expand...
The two I carry are on that list--good news. :)
 
That's not the question. You said they were considered unacceptable. At the bare minimum, its a GI hardball round that *might* expand.

But the thing that gets me most is, it doesn't matter what advances in bullet design come along. If hydrashoks have been proven to expand reliably (and there is tons of data to suggest this), then that's not going to change. In other words, fancy new bullets might move it from the #1 position to the #2 or #3, but its never going to get thrown off the heap entirely.
.
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you're a little confused on the subject. hydra shocks aren't bad rounds, they just don't stack up against modern jhp designs. btw, there's "tons of data" that show hydra shocks often clog with clothing and don't expand and also exhibit poor weight retention ;) don't take my word for it, a little googling will show all this.
 
I use Winchester White Box at the range. For defense I have settled mostly on the Bonded 230 grain Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1, although I also have some 230 grain Hydra-Shok in the safe. I have a few boxes of Remington JHP 185 grain as well. It is smaller & faster, but I don't really know if that is better or worse:confused:. They seem to perform rather well from what I've seen so far, even though many people believe that the heavier grain bullets are more effective even though they travel at a slower velocity than the lighter bullet does.
 
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Apocalypse-Now said:
you're a little confused on the subject. hydra shocks aren't bad rounds, they just don't stack up against modern jhp designs. btw, there's "tons of data" that show hydra shocks often clog with clothing and don't expand and also exhibit poor weight retention ;) don't take my word for it, a little googling will show all this.
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Its not the subject that's confusing, its your posts. I'm pretty sure I read "antiquated design that's not even considered fit for duty". Now you're saying they're "not bad". Additionally, you threw in an approved list of carry loads, and hydrashoks are on there twice. Make up your mind.
 
Why should I go with the flavor-of-the-day load when I have a case of a proven performer that feeds reliably in even my most picky 1911.

And where did this twice as expensive stuff come from? The last single 50 round box of HS I bought was less expensive than the price of two 20 boxes of Gold dots.
 
I have had good luck in the past with Cor-Bon JHP in my Para-Ordinance. Some of the others (many of them good brands I use in other guns) seem to have an issue sliding up the rail and entering the chamber. Probably more a design flaw in the pistol than in the ammo; but the combination I am using seems to work pretty well.
 
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