What's the best bargain for a solid, no frills 1911?
- Thread starter JohnKSa
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Man-O-War
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Another vote for the Springfield 1911A1 Milspec.
RileyMc
Ed Brown flat MSH for Gov't/Commander Brownell's part # 087-000-027 $59.95
Wolff hammer spring 23lb Brownell's part # 969-262-230 $4.29
Mainspring cap pin Brownell's part # 100-000-878 $1.65
Mainspring housing pin retainer Brownell's part # 100-000-871 $1.65
(you see, there is also a fourth part as the ils system doesn't have the retaining pin, but I'm sure with your experience you knew that and overlooked it, right?)
Total for MSH conversion 67.54 plus shipping, over 17.00 more than I quoted in my original post. Many times a springfield will require a little fitting and any pistol will need some blending. Remember the posters original goal was to later customize this pistol, so I was pointing out a few things that would come up down the road, and I would only reccomend quality parts.
You don't have to buy a series 80 Colt, they make a 70 series copy agian, or you can buy a nice used pre 70 series for about 400.00 if you look for it, however, if you are inclined to purchase an 80 series Colt and then are stupid enough to tamper with the 80 series safety, the shim is only about 4.00.
RileyMc
Your words, not mine, but I agree.
Break out your Brownell's next time and read the question being posted first next time, maybe there would be a little more understanding once you take the ultimate goal in mind.If you don't understand, maybe a less condecending tone would be the higher road, wouldn't you think?
Ed Brown flat MSH for Gov't/Commander Brownell's part # 087-000-027 $59.95
Wolff hammer spring 23lb Brownell's part # 969-262-230 $4.29
Mainspring cap pin Brownell's part # 100-000-878 $1.65
Mainspring housing pin retainer Brownell's part # 100-000-871 $1.65
(you see, there is also a fourth part as the ils system doesn't have the retaining pin, but I'm sure with your experience you knew that and overlooked it, right?)
Total for MSH conversion 67.54 plus shipping, over 17.00 more than I quoted in my original post. Many times a springfield will require a little fitting and any pistol will need some blending. Remember the posters original goal was to later customize this pistol, so I was pointing out a few things that would come up down the road, and I would only reccomend quality parts.
You don't have to buy a series 80 Colt, they make a 70 series copy agian, or you can buy a nice used pre 70 series for about 400.00 if you look for it, however, if you are inclined to purchase an 80 series Colt and then are stupid enough to tamper with the 80 series safety, the shim is only about 4.00.
RileyMc
Your words, not mine, but I agree.
Break out your Brownell's next time and read the question being posted first next time, maybe there would be a little more understanding once you take the ultimate goal in mind.If you don't understand, maybe a less condecending tone would be the higher road, wouldn't you think?
Springfield makes a nice pistol, I am working on one right now and am impresseed with the fit and finish of most of it, but my customer had some changes he wanted made to his much like the above poster had inquired about. I have absoloutly nothing against the Springfields, but was merely pointing out some things that someone with an ultimate goal of customising should consider. Bargain doesn't mean cheap to most people, at least not most of the people I deal with. Bargain has a whole 'nuther meaning.
Now, for those of you who were so quick to just jump me, or were simply quick to choose the SA, based on the original posters question, let me ask you why you prefer the SA over let's say the Colt or Kimber or Dan Wesson, or, or, or..... What is your reasoning? I'm not to old to learn something here.
Now, for those of you who were so quick to just jump me, or were simply quick to choose the SA, based on the original posters question, let me ask you why you prefer the SA over let's say the Colt or Kimber or Dan Wesson, or, or, or..... What is your reasoning? I'm not to old to learn something here.
Master Blaster
Member
That would be the part you do not need to replace unless you want to change the round steel housing that comes with the springer to a flat EB housing.
These are the three RileyMc is refering to that need to be replaced to get rid of the ILS feature, and you only need the hammer spring if you are unhappy with the pull weight.
Wolff hammer spring 23lb Brownell's part # 969-262-230 $4.29
Mainspring cap pin Brownell's part # 100-000-878 $1.65
Mainspring housing pin retainer Brownell's part # 100-000-871 $1.65
Did you miss the part in my reply that stated 'replacing with a quality mainspring housing'? I din't say anything about just converting and ILS housing. In my position, and one of most 'smith's, there are considerations that have to be taken into consideration. It's akin to me also not defeating a series 80 style safety with a shim or a Series II/schwartz safety with a 70 series FP. There is no mistake or appearance of the original style safety. Back yard home guys can do these things because it's only your hyde, if I do it, it's mine.
Gunsnrovers
Member
While I like Ed Brown parts, there are less expensive QUALITY alternatives then $59. The S&A MSH without loop will be a good $20 cheaper. Les Baer has their MSH in the $30 range.
For my GI, I replaced the MSH with one off a pre ILS Springfield. You local gunsmith may have USGI parts available too.
If your friend does send the pistol off to be built, many smiths have packages that include replacing most of the parts folks find offensive in off the shelf 1911's.
The Milspecs and GIs have proven to be good platforms for build ups. They are a solid s70 style off the shelf base gun. A good chunk of the "ready to order" 1* packages out of Yost Bonitz are off GI's. The frame, slide, and barrel are very usable. Also, gunsmiths get a much better price out of Brownells then regular consumers. Your gunsmith is not paying $59 for the MSH he put in for you.
For my GI, I replaced the MSH with one off a pre ILS Springfield. You local gunsmith may have USGI parts available too.
If your friend does send the pistol off to be built, many smiths have packages that include replacing most of the parts folks find offensive in off the shelf 1911's.
The Milspecs and GIs have proven to be good platforms for build ups. They are a solid s70 style off the shelf base gun. A good chunk of the "ready to order" 1* packages out of Yost Bonitz are off GI's. The frame, slide, and barrel are very usable. Also, gunsmiths get a much better price out of Brownells then regular consumers. Your gunsmith is not paying $59 for the MSH he put in for you.
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Michael_2112
Member
Colt 1991A1
You mean you purchased a 80 series just to shim it? Once again, I'm looking at a bit of different perspective than you are, I won't disable safeties, it's not wise or necessary to do so if you know what you are doing. You can get just as good and reliable a trigger out of an 80 series as anything, the shim is not a very good idea. Would you feel better if I said unsafe or irresponsible instaed of stupid?
I have worked with many of these other MSH. While I do use other parts from these manufactures, I have found that hands down the Ed Brown is of the highest quality. While the Bears I have seen are around 35.00 or so, we are still talking about an average of 20.00 or so difference from what I showed as the MSH of choice for me. That quote priced out was 17.00 higher than the 50.00 I originally stated, and then we didn't even have shipping. Use your numbers and we hit the 50.00 mark, right?
Sorry, but using old take-off's, while economical and wise in some cases doesn't cover all of the bases. I simply was bringing up points in comparison to value of the overall cost of the pistols. I'll still stand behind my staement that the Colt is the best base pistol to be had if you are going out and specifically purchasing a base pistol for customizing, and then I would reccomend the series 70 style giring group over the 80, and would even go so far as to reccomend buying an un duffed with pre 70 series Colt. I still haven't said anything bad about the Sprigfields other than that you do limit a few options and that I wouldn't reccomend re-using some of the parts. They are still nice pistols, just not the best 'bargain' for customizing in my eyes. Weren't we here looking for opinions? Is mine of less value that yours?
I have worked with many of these other MSH. While I do use other parts from these manufactures, I have found that hands down the Ed Brown is of the highest quality. While the Bears I have seen are around 35.00 or so, we are still talking about an average of 20.00 or so difference from what I showed as the MSH of choice for me. That quote priced out was 17.00 higher than the 50.00 I originally stated, and then we didn't even have shipping. Use your numbers and we hit the 50.00 mark, right?
Sorry, but using old take-off's, while economical and wise in some cases doesn't cover all of the bases. I simply was bringing up points in comparison to value of the overall cost of the pistols. I'll still stand behind my staement that the Colt is the best base pistol to be had if you are going out and specifically purchasing a base pistol for customizing, and then I would reccomend the series 70 style giring group over the 80, and would even go so far as to reccomend buying an un duffed with pre 70 series Colt. I still haven't said anything bad about the Sprigfields other than that you do limit a few options and that I wouldn't reccomend re-using some of the parts. They are still nice pistols, just not the best 'bargain' for customizing in my eyes. Weren't we here looking for opinions? Is mine of less value that yours?
Gunsnrovers
Member
I prefer hooks on the half cock notch if I'm not going to have the firing pin block.
I like the captive hook also, but I do make a slight mod that some manufactureres do automatically on some hammers now to protect the tips of the sear that engage the hammer hooks in the event it goes to half cock, or if a customer is 'testing' out his new toy that he doesn't destroy a trigger job.
I go from this
to this
or in the case of some manufacturers, they do this
This actually 'adds' to the safety in my humble opinion as you are helping protect the engagement surfaces of the sear and hammer.
This is reminicent of what the Gold Cups have in them.
I also had a couple of old wide spur hammers done, but this one is the worse for age as I let the elements get too it. What a waste, but nobody is perfect.
I go from this
to this
or in the case of some manufacturers, they do this
This actually 'adds' to the safety in my humble opinion as you are helping protect the engagement surfaces of the sear and hammer.
This is reminicent of what the Gold Cups have in them.
I also had a couple of old wide spur hammers done, but this one is the worse for age as I let the elements get too it. What a waste, but nobody is perfect.
Gunsnrovers
Member
I didn't buy the S80 to modify, but over 12 years it changed a little as parts came and went. I had a very nice trigger pull done on the S80 parts and know it can be done by smiths willing to take the time. With the parts removed it got even smoother. Then I went to the hammer with captive half cock notch.
I have no issue with S80 parts and think it's much better then the swartz system. I prefer the Springfield response. Much easier for the user to "correct".
I haven't seen a Colt locally under $600 (even basic ones) which really puts the Springfield ahead in terms of base gun. Imbel makes a nice slide and frame and their barrels have done well for me with good bushings installed.
I have no issue with S80 parts and think it's much better then the swartz system. I prefer the Springfield response. Much easier for the user to "correct".
I haven't seen a Colt locally under $600 (even basic ones) which really puts the Springfield ahead in terms of base gun. Imbel makes a nice slide and frame and their barrels have done well for me with good bushings installed.
I just got a Rock Island Armory 1911 that is a 1911A1 mil-spec. It looks good to me. I don't many problems at all with it and the finish is quite good. It depends how inexpensive he is wanting to go. You can get the RIA 1911s for $300 new and a less for used. I got it for the same reasons as you are asking about but I have no intentions of turning it into a match gun or a carry gun. It is just something to mess around with.
If I wanted to build something into a really nice 1911, I would start with SS for sure. I have seen used Springfield 1911 for less than $400 and think they are a good bargin at that price.If I was going to do it again, I would just get the Springfield because it has a higher resale value. If you don't like it, you can get more of your money back from it. I don't think I am going to loose money on my RIA 1911 since I got it pretty cheap.
If I wanted to build something into a really nice 1911, I would start with SS for sure. I have seen used Springfield 1911 for less than $400 and think they are a good bargin at that price.If I was going to do it again, I would just get the Springfield because it has a higher resale value. If you don't like it, you can get more of your money back from it. I don't think I am going to loose money on my RIA 1911 since I got it pretty cheap.
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