What's the deal with benchrest shooters?

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Personally, I consider benchrest shooting like going to the driving range, where offhand, kneeling, and prone are like a full round of golf. I use the bench to fine-tune aspects of my shooting like sights, breathing, and trigger pull (and if I reloaded, powder loads). The rest can be a very usful tool, but I also know just how hard it is lifting that rifle and I would never mock anyone who could get on paper at 100 yards (if they weren't on paper I'd tell them to move back to 50 until they improve). I don't deal this the Range-Nazis, if they say anything I just smile, nod, put on my hearing protection, and load another magazine. I am only concerned about how my group was compared to my last one, not some a$$hat with a $3,000 rifle (or even a $300 rifle) and a bad additude.:rolleyes:
 
So, Old Time Hunter,

You responded to rudeness by destroying property, and threatening violence.

How very high road of you.
 
So, Owen, at what point do you think that I might have come off or even if I ever was on the high road in this situation? Since you were not there, it might be more beneficial to understand the action if you knew more of the story;

When he did not immediately gain a reaction from me when he was yelling at me, he picked up a hand full of sand and threw it in my direction to get my attention. Now granted, he did not do it like an out of control teenager, but more like a better than thou corporate type climber that could always use the excuse that he was just trying to get my attention. At that point I made a slight glance at him and then continued to complete the task at hand. A cease fire was called and the guy walks over to me and starts pointing his finger at the direction of my chin and screaming that I should NOT BE FIRING MY RIFLE IN A MANNER THAT BREAKS HIS CONSENTRATION and that me and my blue collar gun should go to a range that would befit my status. Mind you, my only reaction was to cross my arms, lean back against the bench, and look down at him. At no time did I raise my voice, nor even say anything to him. As soon as the course was called clear, I took my position and fired at my target. Out of the corner of my eye, I noticed that he was trying to tell me iin sign language that I was #1, when I proceeded to ignore him he began yelling again. At that point, I guess the wind picked up and carried a couple of my shots down wind. Of course, I apologized. And when I suggested that he not stand up for fear of his safety, I never raised my voice and never did through out this entire episode.
As far as the destruction of property, I guess I can understand your feeling pertaining to that. Worse yet, I am on the crew that builds and donates the target mounts to the range, boy that made it twice as bad!
Hate to tap all you BR's because of one bad apple, but it does seem you all came out of the same barrel. Arrogance and confidence are often mistaken for each other, I have to say that from what I have seen, the general skien of the BR's appears to be arrogance.
 
"I shoot everything", pretty much sums my shooting habbits.

I shoot Trap with a $300 S&W 1000 that beats up my shoulder, have done a best of 22/25. I hunt turkey with that same $300 gun. If I could find another barrel I'd saw it off and shoot tactical shotgun with it too.

I shoot target with my "acurised by a half drunk armorer" Beretta 92FS, I get smoked by the guys with thier fancy $2500 target guns, but owe well. I shoot 350-380's/400 on NRA match targets.

I shoot my Kimber TLE with knight sites on Steel vs. most who use glocks and fancy race guns, who snicker at me.

I shoot my M4 in some cheese combat rifle matches, I've also gone fox hunting with my M4.

I shoot my wifes NM AR-15 ($1400) with NM iron sites, at 200-1000yrds holding a 7 1/2" group @ 1000 yrds, I snicker inside at the guys with $10k bolt guns out there slamming my groups, while they're useing scopes as expensive as my rifle and they're holding 4-5". I've shot my M4 at the 700 yard line with pretty good sucess too, and many noses turned up.

I'm looking into buying a Remmy 700PSS or LTR and a 870HD for tactical shotgun, I also want an M1, or win one in a Service Match.

I shoot USMC KD courses every year, and my current job as a "Marksman Training Unit Chief" puts me in contact with the KD ranges for M16's and M9's weekly, I also teach Tactical ranges, foreign weapons and machine gun courses... I'm open to any help that will help me shoot better and let me pass it along to other shooters. But I feel I'm more versital than those who only do one type of shooting, unless you're going to help me shoot "your sport" better, do what Grandma said, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". I stay pretty humble when trash talking starts my way, maybe it's do to my feeling that I'm proficient enough, and haven't heavily invested into just one type of shooting event or care too.

I once put the invitation out there to come crawl through the bush and swamps with thier fancy guns build for snipeing, just to see how well the fancy bolt gun would hold up to a week on a real sniper course... this was after being harrassed for haveing an "assult rifle" on a "target range"... which I reminded them it was a USMC Range.

I know what you're saying about the Bench Gun guys, I've never had many run in's with the Skeet guys, but the Guys with fancy Trap guns, always ask how I take the brutality of shooting 4 rounds of trap with a shotgun that doesn't have much for recoil reduction. I think it's a snooty "my gun cost more than yours". Some honestly get mad when they have invested alot of time and money, into shooting a sub MOA and you're out there shooting just over MOA with a 1/10 of the cost or time invested.
 
OldTimeHunter,
You would never make it on the range I belonged to before I moved. The rule there was if you can't keep your shots on your own target, you will take instruction from the rangemaster, or you will leave. (This was an urban range and safety and containment concerns were paramount.)

Dean
 
It doesn't matter what hobby they all have this group buried somewhere.


Chevrolet enthuasts have the Corvette guys

Sports people have Golfers

Fishing people have the Bass Tournament Fisherman

Hunters have the Waterfowlers

ECT ECT

Me I rather enjoy bench shooting my rifle for accuracy. But for me it's more about the load and the gun rather than getting the smallest group.

I can have just as much fun tweaking on a remington 7400 in order to get a sub 2" group as I can shooting a varmint rifle that can do 1/4" groups. Or in my current case just how accurate can a MAS 36 be.
 
Old Time Hunter, it must be the area you live in, I have been frequenting ranges in this area for 40+ years and have never had anything like you describe happen to me or in my presents. Just lucky I guess.
I don't know that any group of shooters are more or less valuable to the shooting sports. I can however, assure you,that without the BR guys, the equipment you use today would not be capable of the accuracy we all expect from our sporting weapons. The BR group has been the ones who inspired advances in everything from bullets to powder to barrels.

My point, which you missed, was that there are many reasons for someone to mis-understand facial expressions, the look could have been directed at equipment that he paid big bucks for, yet did not perform to his expectations.

As for your encounter with the BR shooter, if you come across with him as you did me, I can understand his behavior.
 
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Cat Fight on the high road! Whodda thunk it?
I've shot lotsa disciplines, from military-no-foolin'-around-second-place = dead, to trap, to countersniper (the closest I'll ever come to actual benchrest), to IPSC. It's all valuable to me, for I've learned something at every turn. One of those things I've learned is that they all have very different types of folks in each one of those endeavors. It is all just a microcasm of the world population in general, and no particular discipline holds the monopoly on churlish behaviour.
Offensive linemen are the antithesis of linebackers, but they can learn to play together, and both contribute to the TEAM!
SatCong
 
My range is the St Louis Benchrest Rifle Club, so obviously much of the shooting there is benchrest, but by no means all of it- I shoot a bit of everything from benchrest rimfire, hunter factory class, and 600 yard, to some blackpowder both cartridge and musket, milsurps, and my "fun guns" like my 44-40 Henry and Springfield trapdoor- Since I shoot a bit of everything I never get very good at any individual discipline but for me it keeps away the bordom of shooting the same thing over and over again- I've never had a condescending experience from any of the pure benchrest boys- They are always interested in sharing their knowledge if I have a question about a particular disipline and more often than not they will come to my bench to check out what I may be shooting, I guess just because it is something different- Most of them will realize that while they are very very good at making a very small grouping at 200 yards, they don't know squat about something like a nice 100 year old Krag, and what it can do with iron sites- A classic example of the benchrest shooters that I have encountered was one morning when one of the varmint guys was practicing at 100 yards and I was a few benches down making great gobs of smoke with my Brown Bess at 50 yards- During one of the cease fires we happened to be walking down to change targets and he veers over to my lane to see what a 75 caliber hole looks like- Now a smoothbore flintlock is not going to group anything at 50 yards but those sporadic 3/4 inch round holes are impressive- He took a long look at my target, shook his head and grinned as he said that his 5 round group of 6 PPC at 100 yards would fit into one of my holes but that he thought that I was having more fun than he was- The rest of the morning was spent shooting and exchanging knowledge about our respective guns- This is typical of my experience with most shooters whether they be benchrest or not- Occaisaionally you will run into an ass but that happens everywhere, not just at the range-
 
It has been said of me that "sometimes you don't hit anything." I am not a great shot, that said, no one has ever tried to talk down to me about my shooting abilities. I guess it helps to shoot with friends. Like others have said every hobby has its extremists who think they are the only right way to participate in the hobby. How boring would life be if that were the case? Just shrug it off and keep having fun.
 
i think you just hit upon a click within a genus. i raise Boxers, and used to go to a very busy dogpark here in houston. Most every one here is very friendly and knows each other , and knows each others dogs, and how they act and react, and get grouchy, etc. Every now and again, someone would come in , who was obviously a dog lover, but had a twitchy dog( much like the owner's personalities). then if one of our dogs would try to play or chase or play fightwith the new dog, new dog would freak out , and maybe go on the attack. The owner would invariably freak out, get loud , yell scream , etc. all the while blaming you and your dog, then leave the area or move out in a big huff. Whereas all the regulars, would go , that dog needs to learn and socialize, what is that chick or dudes problem? The dog woudla been okay after about 5 or 10 minutes of learning, with a big bunch of dogs, how to act. The jerkstore owner however, would never let this happen. sometimes dogs just have to be dogs for a while , and let them figure it all out.
Same with some shooters who take themselves WAY TO SERIOUS. I met a ex marine shooter at the range one day , who had all the fancy pad gear, and from the prone, was shooting as good or better, with me on my super scoped 22. But this guy was as nice as could be, and readily offered me advice and tips on eye site line, body control, etc.
you jsut happened to run into some jerkstores, same as I have in the dog breeding game. I've had some great dogs, but when i sell from a litter, i would like them to go to people who will show them, it looks good for my bitches and bloodline. But my first concern is that they go to good homes. Some of the Breeders look at me with horror in their eyes, and that i dont spend 10 's of thousands of dollars to show them , and promote them , and advertise them, myself. i try to tell them , hey I breed in my spare time because i enjoy the science of it, and am glad to get them in good homes. I have a regular full time job, this is not my all consuming life, like it is to a lot of these older folks.
 
At my local handgun range I normally start at 7 to 10 yards then go out to 15 to 25 yards if I am doing particularly well at the 7 to 10 distance.

I wouldn’t laugh at someone who is all over the paper at 7 yards if the person is just doing their best.

However, I do find it particularly funny when someone comes in; puts up a silhouette that they send to the very far end of the range and then don’t even hit paper.

When it comes to bench rest shooting I am somewhat similar. I have nothing against plinking around as I like to do this too from time to time.

I also don’t find it funny when someone is doing the best they can at say 50 to 150 yards but I do find it ridiculous when someone that can’t shoot well at these distances try to show off by shooting a couple hundred rounds at a silhouette 300 yards away and revels over the 15 to 20 rounds that hit paper.

Ultimately it is the attitude of the shooter that I respond to not their ability.
 
Maybe it is how I was raised/taught about shooting, but I have a difficulty understanding why you would even waist your time with something that, as I see it, has very little practical use.

Skeet/Trap, IDPA/IPSC, etc.. are all based on some practical use. If you use a firearm in a real world scenario, this is going to be the fashion you would use it in.

Benchrest/Bullseye shooting just doesn't make sense in my mind.

Is it possible that there is some angle here that I am not seeing?

Educate me.
 
"IDPA/IPSC, etc.. are all based on some practical use. If you use a firearm in a real world scenario, this is going to be the fashion you would use it in."

IDPA and IPSC are real world based? Not until the targets start shooting back. :D

The benchrest shooters I've met are some of the friendliest, most knowledgeable people around. To a person they've been more than willing to share their experience in building and maintaining a precision rifle and, more importantly, how to read the wind in all sorts of weather conditions.

John
 
Benchrest shooters are driven by perfection, a group of .200 is medicore, a group of .100 is good, but you strive to beat the conditions with the smallest possible group. What good is benchrest in the real world of shooting?
If you go out and buy a new whiz-bang magnum hunting rifle, do you take it to the range and shoot it standing to see what kind of accuracy the rifle is capable of? No, You put it on the bench to see what you have really bought. After this you know what the rifle is capable of, if it don't meet your expectations, you decide what you can do to make it into the rifle you think it should be. The BR crowd has already taken a lot of the work out of the process by giveing some insight into what makes a rifle accurate, pillar bedding, free floating the barrel, lapping the reciever/bolt lugs, trueing the bolt face, blue printing the action, from them, you can look at the target and have a good idea of whether you should increase the powder charge, decrease the powder charge, use a different bullet, lighter or heavier, boat tail or flat base.
Without the benchrest crowd, a rifle that would consistantly group in 2" would be a highly prized firearm.

Respect is the problem, no matter which method you employ in your effort to place your bullets in the target, if its enjoyable to you and safe for others, its good.
 
+1 for being "secure

For me, as long as I am not acting in an unsafe manner or interfering with anyone else, I don't give a rat's bottom what anyone thinks about my shooting style.
Click to expand...

I've always found that people who build themselves up by trying to tear everyone else down are really quite "insecure" at their core.
 
Benchrest/Bullseye shooting just doesn't make sense in my mind.
Click to expand...

Neither do (IMHO):
Big 4WD vehicles that never go off road.
Motorcycles/cars that will do 140-150 mph +
Carbon frame racing bicycles w/all the clothing that goes with racing and only get ridden on weekends (for exercise) You want exercise, get an old single speed, steel frame Schwinn.
$15,000 Rolex watches, Perazzi (sp?) shotguns, etc.
500 S&W Magnums. :D
Full Auto
Women's shoes.
Teenagers

and the list is endless.

Maybe it's because of "Different Strokes for Different Folks"

Dean
 
Why does a specific type of shooting have to make sense? Some people enjoy going out and trying to produce the smallest groups possible, others go out to plink around and just relax and shoot. Who's to say one is better/more useful than the other. There doesn't need to be a practical use; some of us are just enjoying a hobby. Sports don't have a practical use (for the most part), yet I enjoy them immensely. As long as you're having fun...that's all that matters.

like deadin said "different strokes for different folks"

Imagine how boring life would be if everyone only enjoyed doing the same thing.

Regards,
 
It is generally a mistake to paint everyone who does some activity with the same brush.

That said, some activities attract certain personality types and there is a pronounced flavor to that group.

As far as BR shooting, expect the shooter:
1. To be well-off
That is an awful lot of $$$ for a piece of hobby equip that has no practical purpose off the bench. Self-made well-off folks are more likely to not be outright jerks to strangers, since a lot of those strangers may happen to also be potential customers. Of course, you will always have the status-seeking snob types who want to increase their status by lowering others'.

2. Focussed & singleminded
Dude wants to put tiny holes in the paper. To do this, he has to be anal retentive beyond belief. Anal type-As can be less than patient with distractions.
 
It is not just benchrest shooters.

It is hunters vs. target shooters, bowhunters vs. gunhunters, trap vs. skeet vs. sporting clays vs. duck hunters, Labs vs. Pointers, whatever.

I wish every gun club and range would have a copy of Dr. Suess' book on Sneetches, and make it required reading. That way, when a person runs into this kind of arrogant snobbery, you could just ask to see the star on their belly.

http://www.uulongview.com/sermons/bellies_with_stars.html
 
Why does a specific type of shooting have to make sense? There doesn't need to be a practical use; some of us are just enjoying a hobby. As long as you're having fun...that's all that matters.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more! Unfortunately there are many who feel they must bash, insult or belittle a shooting discipline that do not consider proper or practical - or if they simply do not understand it. And some also feel they must do the same to the individuals who participate in that particular discipline or shooting style. A great many seem to get upset by others that are enjoying something that they do not approve of. :confused:

Since this is an old thread I'll mention again that one of the nicest shooters I ever met was a local competitive BR shooter. I simply pulled up to his driveway one day when I saw him shooting along with his wife. I had never met him prior to that but we had a mutual friend.

He let me shoot his wife's 6mm PPC - a real treat! Basically made we feel very welcome. This couple definitely did not fit the stereotype that many here are trying to paint.
 
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