What's the deal with Blue Dot?

[Mixed Nuts]

I've gotten some reloading data together. All sources - I've got three - mention blue dot as a good powder for heavy weight .357 ammo.

One source even suggests it was the most accurate powder tested for the Saeco #354 bullet (is a 180gr bullet).

So I went to look up blue dot and there are at least 3 manufacturers offering it.

Alliant

IMR

Hercules

Are these all the same thing? And if they are should a buyer select the cheapest or is there another consideration?

Also, there seems to be some kind of warning regarding the stuff and lightweight bullets.

I should probably just start out with Unique and see what happens. Even so, I was wondering what's up with Blue Dot?

 

[Englishmn]

Alliant bought Hercules.
Imr has blue it is similar but not same.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I shot pounds and pounds of Hercules/Alliant Blue Dot when I started loading using 125 gr bullets and never had problem. That 125 gr warning made no sense seeing that they still had data for both 115 and 140 gr bullets. I was using a starting charge according to the Speer manual I was using. They were fire breathing loads. In later Speer manuals, I believe the starting charge was greatly reduced....After that warning came out, I swapped to Power Pistol for my 125 gr loads.

With all that said, I would use Unique if I had it on hand. If I were buying new powder, I would likely choose BE-86 over Unique.

 

[dgod]

I have been using Bluedot since the early 1980's. Super Powder.

 

[armarsh]

I'm one of the guys that nearly blew up a 586 with Blue dot using starting loads before I knew of the warning about 125 grain bullets. Really not that much fun driving brass out of a cylinder with a mallet and punch. I often wonder what it would have been like if I had started in the middle of the loading range.

IMHO: If the stuff is that twitchy I don't need it around. I tossed it in the burn pile.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/safety_notices.aspx

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Thanks, Englishmn. I should have given my research a little more time.

ColtPythonElite, thanks for the rundown, I don't have any data on BE-86. I ran over to the Alliant page and saw their one, 158gr cast load, and for a single load, probably a mild load, it looked very good at over 1100fps. I'll have to keep an eye out for BE-86 load data.

Dgod, are you using blue dot for 357?

Armarsh, I'm leaning that way myself as the data I've got seems very different from two of my sources.

 

[cfullgraf]

In the past, I have used Blue Dot regularly in 38 Super, 38/45 Clerke, and 357 Magnum. I like its performance but I have transitioned to powders that meter a bit easier than Blue Dot.

I still have a pound container and did load some 357 Magnum rounds with it early in 2017. I'd buy more in a heartbeat if my other favorite powders were not available.

 

[Slamfire]

Alliant Blue Dot works very well with jacketed bullets, plated bullets, but leaded heavily with cast bullets in the 357 Magnum. I found AA#9, 2400, H110, W296 to be much better powders with cast bullets in the 357 Magnum. I don't recommend Blue Dot. If you are given it for free, then use it, but I don't recommend you use it with cast bullets.

Smith & Wesson M27     

158 JHP (W/W) 13.5 grains 2400 R-P cases WSP   
5-Aug-06 T = 102 °F  Accurate

Ave Vel = 1222       
Std Dev = 26.45       
ES 72.12       
High 1262       
Low 1190      
 N = 5       

158 LRN 9.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases  
5-Aug-06 T = 102 °F  Accurate

leading
      
Ave Vel = 1203       
Std Dev = 29.22       
ES 120.8       
High 1261       
Low 1141      
 N = 22       

158 LRN 10.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases  
5-Aug-06 T = 102 °F v. Accurate

heavy leading  

Ave Vel = 1290       
Std Dev = 24.91       
ES 88.15       
High 1324       
Low 1235      
 N = 20       

158 LRN 12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases  Gamma Chrony  
5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F  Accurate

 little or no leading  
     

Ave Vel = 1278       
Std Dev = 34.98       
ES 117.4       
High 1344       
Low 1226      
 N = 25

 

[joneb]

I have had good results with Blue Dot in 357 Mag using 180 gr XTP in a 4" Trooper, but that's about it for my 357 Mags.

 

[444]

I used to shoot a load, published in their loading manual at the time, that gave insane velocity with 110 grain bullets in .357.

I dont remember the numbers but it gave you significantly higher velocity with a 110 grain bullet out of a handgun than the published velocity of a USGI .30 M1 Carbine also with a 110 grain bullet.

A jackrabbit turned into red mist.

I never had a problem but I guess a potential problem existed.

 

[someguy2800]

I looked into it for 357 after seeing some very fast loads in a 70'd era speer book. After comparing to modern data and seeing huge discrepancies in published load date from source to source, and after reading people talk about how finicky of a powder it is I decided I didn't want anything to do with it. I have seen it called the crazy ex girlfriend of powders. 296/H110 work great for me when I want to make fireballs.

 

[thomas15]

Mixed Nuts, you might consider starting out your handloading hobby with something a bit more tame such as a 38 spl target load. Make the mistakes and learn a few things before taking it to the limit, just my suggestion we are all adults here.

 

[ATLDave]

My very casual opinion is that Blue Dot is a powder that has been surpassed for all or most handgun applications. I have some, but rarely use it. The blue flakes are cool, but other powders do everything I ever wanted Blue Dot to do, but better (in terms of metering and/or non-twitchiness with pressures and/or reduced flash).

 

[ATLDave]

Mixed Nuts, you might consider starting out your handloading hobby with something a bit more tame such as a 38 spl target load. Make the mistakes and learn a few things before taking it to the limit, just my suggestion we are all adults here.

Possible contrary view from me: I learned reloading on "real" 10mm. Working with slower powders with good case fill can be easier for a new reloader than tiny charges of fast powders like Titegroup... the very first loads I worked up were 10mm loads with AA#9, which I picked, in part, because it was literally impossible to double-charge a case. I had read, in fact, that it was mechanically impossible to create a seriously over-pressure load with that powder/cartridge combo, because you simply ran out of space before you were in danger of blowing anything up. Now, I wasn't counting on that. I was weighing every charge and staying well within the book... but I took a little comfort in the idea that it was going to be very difficult for me to make an error that would turn out to be a grenade!

I would add that I have seen a few reloading disasters that came from "target loads" that were double or triple charged. Obviously that's user error... just pointing out that trying to build target loads is something that requires just as much attention as anything else.

Apologies for the thread drift.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

I'll politely agree with Thomas that you might be best served getting some time in with a powder that
gives a little more flexibility.

I've played with Blue Dot in several calibers - it was, at one time, my favorite 44-40 powder.
I still use it on and off loading high performance, heavy payload 12 gauge which I think is it's best application.

The reason I moved away from it in handguns was that the lot to lot variation with Blue Dot was
far greater (in my un-scientific deductions based on charge weights needed for identical velocities- up to .7 grain variation in 9mm)
than any other powder I've ever used.

JT

 

[Englishmn]

Most reloading books recommend using a powder that mostly fills the case making it less likely to overcharge.
But for cheap plinkers we can practice careful reloading of light charges of fast powder.

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Cfulgraf, that is for the input. Sounds like you like the stuff, but don't put it first.

Slamfire, thanks, appreciate the data and your remarks about leading are right on time. I intend to shoot 158 or 170 grain cast bullets at 1050 to 1150 fps.

Joneb, thanks for the input.

444, thanks for the anecdote.

Someguy2800, I'm thinking blue dot is a no go. I think the crazy ex-girlfiend description is what put me over the edge.

Thomas15, I appreciate your point, I've done some reloading before, just 45 70, and always 1375 fps and thereabouts with 405s. And I'm not into maximizing the 357. I do want to shoot it harder than a .38. Hopefully, I can do that safely. I have decided no blue dot loads.

ATLdave, I'm in agreement with both your points. I get what Thomas was trying to say. In the end it's mostly a matter of following directions and not tipping beers during the charging phase.

Jt-ar-mg42, hear your words. And I think I've seen some load discrepancies in my blue dot data, too.

Englishmn, the heavier powders seem to take up a lot of space, h110 and 2400 etc... Or so I think they did while I was reading. If I go frugal and shoot Unique or maybe this BE-86 stuff, I'll have to be careful not to double up.

 

[someguy2800]

I would recommend unique for what you want to do. A normal charge of unique of about 7 grains for a 158 bullet and will fill the case about 1/2 full, a double charge would probably be a compressed load. Just need to find a way to ensure you can't double charge like separating your charged and uncharged cases into separate loading blocks and checking them with a flashlight before you start seating bullets.

It is impossible to double charge H110 or 2400 but they are pretty slow powders for loading mild cast loads. Both of them like to be loaded hot, whereas unique is extremely flexible.

 

[AABEN]

I'm one of the guys that nearly blew up a 586 with Blue dot using starting loads before I knew of the warning about 125 grain bullets. Really not that much fun driving brass out of a cylinder with a mallet and punch. I often wonder what it would have been like if I had started in the middle of the loading range.

IMHO: If the stuff is that twitchy I don't need it around. I tossed it in the burn pile.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/safety_notices.aspx

THANK FOR THE HEAD UP

 

[AABEN]

I like W231 for most of my hand guns with lite bullets and A#5 and A#9 for heave bullets the #9 for my 44mag

 

[joed]

I used BD in .357 for a while. It didn't work to well for me at the time and I moved on to another powder. A few years ago I thought of revisiting it again but I've heard stories about it being finicky.

Since discovering 2400 I don't think I'd ever try BD again.

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Someguy2800, thanks for the reccomemdation. I am liking Unique and imr 4227 on paper. And unique has a lot of data available.

AABEN thanks for listing your choices.

Joed, 2400 looks good. I've seen people comment that it is a powerful powder that is less likely to lead barrels than h110. I guess the idea is it burns slower or something. I dunno.