What's the smallest pistol you'd trust?

[Tom Servo]

Just curious. It's tax-refund time, and of course, I'll be blowing at least part of it on another pistol. What I need at this point is one for really deep concealment that I can also trust.

The Kahr K9 series looks nice, but a bit chubby. What are your thoughts on .380 as a caliber? Would you trust your life to one? Worst case scenario would likely be 1-2 attackers, <10 feet, summer clothes. I usually wear an untucked shirt.

Here's the situation. I'm 6'1", 160lbs. With a decent holster, I can pretty well conceal a Sig P228 unless someone's looking for it. However, my sister and her new husband are VERY anti-gun, despite the fact that they live in a bad part of town and one of their friends was shot four times during a mugging a few weeks ago. They're moving into a marginally better neighborhood, but it's directly adjacent to some really tough ones. They've never stated "No guns in our house," but I'd rather not push the issue. She and I grew up with guns, so she'd notice the 228 as soon as I bent over or sat down.

And yes, I've been trying to drag both of them to the range for years. All that liberal indoctrination takes time to break :banghead:

 

[Third_Rail]

If I were old enough to carry, I'd trust my life to a 22lr pistol. Although most people wouldn't, I believe that with proper shot placement and simply having a pistol would stop most threats.

People don't like to be shot, they don't like the idea of being shot. Most criminals would turn tail at seeing ANY gun.

 

[Erich]

Personally, I consider the .380 too light a caliber to trust. It has neither bore diameter, mass, nor velocity going for it. As light as I'll personally go is a 158-gr .38 spl +P out of a snub, which at least has decent sectional density. (Unlike a lot of folks, I'm not at all excited about the new Gold Dot 135-grain bullet - I don't especially care how much it expands - I'm more into guaranteed penetration.)

But I rarely carry anything less powerful than a .45 acp.

You know, for your situation, a .38 snub in a pocket might just work. Sis wouldn't spot it, and it would beat a .380. (The 228 is a great gun, though, isn't it? )

 

[Tom Servo]

The 228 is a great gun, though, isn't it?

You, sir, are the master of understatement

I've actually considered a .22. A friend has one of the new short-barrel Walthers that I may buy from him. With a .22, I could certainly place my shots easily, but I'm wondering if that's still enough.

 

[xdoctor]

The .380 is a great caliber. I've had more luck teaching women to shoot with mine than with any other gun. However, I wouldn't trust my life to it. This is mostly due to the fact that I have a recurring dream that "They're coming to get me." When I shoot them with the .380 in the dream it always bounces off. Probebly wouldn't happen in real life, but damn that would suck.

For something small and light I'd consider the Kimber Ultra or Pro Carry. With your size, you shouldn't have any problem at all concealing it.

 

[critter]

My personal 'minimum' is the 9mm. I own and carry a Kahr MK9 in the summer.

 

[mtnbkr]

My CCW is a Kel-Tec P32 (1000rnds and counting!). If I were to replace it with a different gun, I would get a Kahr PM9 or some variant of lightweight snubby.

Chris

 

[mete]

Having shot numerous 4 legged things with various cartridges I will say that the 380 doesn't interest me. When I first started carrying( back in the dark ages) the choice was a full sized gun,1911 or BHP or if you wanted something small a 380. But now there are a number of good small 9mm or even 40s so I consider the 380 obsolete. The 9mm is about twice as effective as the 380 and the 40 is about the same as the 45 from my experience. So pick a Kahr or small SIG whatever fits your hand better.

 

[PaladinVC]

A .357 snubby, while not fun to practice with (my trigger finger always bleeds from bouncing around in the trigger guard after ten cylinders or so) is a potent piece of gun in a small, convenient package. With the added benefit of being able to do some practice with cheaper, milder .38 loads, it's a great compromise between power and concealability.

 

[Mulliga]

The .380 is a decent defensive round. As others have noted, it probably isn't the best choice for general defense, but for deep concealment, it simply can't be touched. A Bersa Thunder or a Kahr in the hand is worth a USP at home. Also consider getting a Bulgarian Mak in 9mm Makarov - buy ammo in bulk online if you're worried about availability.

I wouldn't mind carrying a .22, especially a nice Ruger or Browning autoloader. As I understand it, rimfires are inherently less reliable than a centerfire pistol, so it wouldn't be something I'd place 100% faith in, but the first rule of gunfighting...

Let's face it. How many people have ever actually had to shoot someone with their carry gun? Not too many, and polls here on THR bear this out. Oft-cited studies like Kleck's and Lott's seem to indicate that if you just point something that looks like a gun at the average criminal, they will run away nine times out of ten.

 

[Eaker]

A .380 with MagSafe ammo is something that I don't want to be shot with.

380 ACP #380 MAX+P+ 52

1,720fps / 342 -SIG P-230;

1,620fps / 303 -Colt Mustang


MagSafe Performance

BTW, I carry a .380 when my Glock 27 just can't be hidden well enough.

 

[mondocomputerman]

The smallest I would go with is a 9mm. I know the platform isn't quite as small as the 380, but a bit more effective.

 

[Russ]

I think the .380 is a good choice if your clothes don't allow you to carry a larger caliber pistol. For all of those who don't like it I would challenge them to take a hit with one.

For a very light reliable .380, go with the Kel-Tec P-3AT.

 

[Jick42]

The smallest round that I would feel comfortable carrying would be 9mm.
But i am looking at a new Kimber Ultra Carry in .45, and that makes me feel MUCH more comfortable.

 

[armoredman]

I carried a CZ70 in .32 for a while - it was cheap, and an excellent pistol, but the round left a lot to be desired. I carry a full size Witness 40 concealed now - choice of holster and carry location as well as modifying clothing styles can go a long way to conceal a good sized pistol.
If you want to carry a small pistol, then simply practice until shot placement is second nature - that wins gun battles.

 

[RWK]

.38 Special or 9x19mm, both probably +P.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

Whatever gun I can carry, I will trust my life to, since it is on me and not in the safe...

Normally I carry a puny Kel Tec P32, in the winter sometimes, a Para Carry .45.

Still haven't found the perfect carry method for the summer when I am busy drowning in my own sweat, that's why the P32 is the always gun.

 

[Third_Rail]

To all of you who say you'd trust a .38 spl more than a .380 ....

They have the same energy/stopping power when both loaded to standard pressures, IIRC.

What's the huge difference that you'll trust the .38 spl more?

 

[k8ysv]

Like some, I'm from the school of thought that says a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45 (or not having a gu at all because you left it at home). When you need it, you NEED it. Anything is better than a rock. As much as it pains me to say it, even a Hi-point is better than a rock in a pinch.

I've got my normal carry guns, my Glock23, 5906TSW and will soon have my Kimber Tactical Pro II, but I believe I'll always keep the Bersa .380 handy just in case. At self defense range, I CAN put the rounds where I want them.

As for your sis and her hubby, you might approach them from the angle that if they REALLY feel strongly against guns, what better way to lend credibility to their arguments than by saying "Yes, I've actually shot firearms." They owe it to themselves to find out as much as they can about that which they speak. You know, the whole Sun Tzu "Know thy enemy" thing. Once you've got them at the range they won't be able to keep from becoming hooked. At the very least, they may start to see flaws in their thoughts and pre-concieved notions about guns.

Luck to you!

 

[gggman]

My main carry peices are either a 9mm or a .357 mag. When deep concealment is necessary, then I carry a S&W 342PD in a pocket holster. That's 5 rds. of 38spl +P in an 11 oz. gun. I'd carry a 380 if that's all I had, as any gun is better than no gun, but wouldn't feel very well armed with 380.

 

[Dain Bramage]

My smallest carry gun is a FEG BR-61 with 6+1 9mm Mak rounds. I really like this little all-steel pistol, and if I didn't trust it, I wouldn't carry it.

 

[strambo]

The Kahr K9 series looks nice, but a bit chubby.

I love my K9. Great gun, 100% reliable and easy to shoot. It is a little heavy (~25 oz, unloaded) because it is all steel which makes it easy to shoot fast and accurately and it will hold up to many thousands of practice rounds. It sure ain't chubby size wise, very slim and easy to conceal under a T shirt, you just need a good holster. The only problem you'll have with concealment w/ your family is if they hug ya...even then there are techniques to avoid that (reach low around the waist so they have to go high )

If they discover your evil inanimate object then you get to have an enlightening discussion about personal responsibility and protection with them.

Normally, I'd think a .380 in the pocket is fine, but to go into a known bad neighborhood... I'd take the Sig, or something at the level of the Kahr K/P 9 minimum.

 

[firearms_instructor]

I'm perfectly comfortable with my Star Model S .380 as a concealed carry piece. It's a locked-breech 1911 design, 8rd magazine, and the grip is long enough to take my pinkie along for the ride (unlike most other concealable mouse guns). It's flatter than the Kahr or Kel-Tecs, IIRC, and my wife loves hers. They're accurate and way easy to shoot. I keep Hydra-Shocks and Golden Sabers in them for defensive purposes.

Too bad Star Bonifacio Echeverria of Spain stopped making them (they went out of business, last I heard).

 

[Erich]

Third Rail,

You're probably off base when you equate energy with stopping power: certainly they are related, but the highest KE load is not necessarily the best stopper. You might want to cruise www.firearmstactical.com to see what I mean. The big deal is that the heavier .38 spl 158-gr bullet is more capable of penetrating to get to the good stuff.

cheers, erich

 

[Third_Rail]

Thanks for the link, Erich.

I'm checking it out now.