What's the word on the AGC Diablo?

[brewer12345]

I learned a valuable lesson with this topic and that is don't ask about black powder handguns that aren't replicas of historical firearms or antiques.

Mods, you can lock this topic. I'm done.

I think you can ask about non-historical stuff, just have a thicker skin and learn to ignore less helpful comments.

FWIW, I have heard these AGC guns are well made. I tend to look at guns through a lens of hunting/target/self defense, so I don't see a use for one personally. If one turns your crank, have at it.

I cannot speak for everyone else, but for me modern muzzleloaders end up in a weird place that doesn't do much for me. Historical stuff is great: I hold and fire one and I am with my ancestors settling the Ohio river valley or marching off with them in a volunteer company in the Union Army. Modern firearms are efficient, extremely capable, and many have interesting and unique design features (why else would I keep a Nagant revolver?). Modern MLs and inlines are in the middle. They evoke no historical notions and they don't do anything as well as a modern firearm. I own a couple to fool with, but I can already tell they will always remain a tool for me, and not a favored one. If you feel differently, that is great. It would be an awful boring world if we all liked the same stuff.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

... I too would rather spend my money on something older that might hold "some" value, but if I came across one at the pawn shop, I would buy it for a reasonably lower price and keep it around for a conversation piece...

Totally agree with your sentiment, and I'm right there with you.

The Diablo seem overpriced for what it is, a novelty.
But I've picked up used BP guns with similarly questionable usefulness just because, when they were "cheap".
I've got one of those Pietta pepperbox revolvers that I think I paid $100 for, and I don't think I've ever fired it.
I'm not crying over spending $100 on something on a whim, but I also feel confident I could recover my "investment" if I chose to.
I doubt it would be easy to find a buyer for the Diablo for a price close to it's cost in a reasonable time.

 

[Seedy Character]

They are extremely useful and portable for Alaskan fishermen, for bear defense.
2 fast shots with slugs, just pray there aren't 3 bears nearby.

I have no desire to own one.

 

[Zarquon]

I've got one. Found it to be quite fun. Doesn't need to have a purpose to be fun.

It's actually the desperado. I heard they took feedback and made real improvements to the desperado. Build quality is better then I expected based on complaints I heard. I don't like how the Diablo has gaps in the front face between the barrels and ribs. The desperado is solid there and has nicer grips.

 

[TTv2]

I think you can ask about non-historical stuff, just have a thicker skin and learn to ignore less helpful comments.

FWIW, I have heard these AGC guns are well made. I tend to look at guns through a lens of hunting/target/self defense, so I don't see a use for one personally. If one turns your crank, have at it.

I cannot speak for everyone else, but for me modern muzzleloaders end up in a weird place that doesn't do much for me. Historical stuff is great: I hold and fire one and I am with my ancestors settling the Ohio river valley or marching off with them in a volunteer company in the Union Army. Modern firearms are efficient, extremely capable, and many have interesting and unique design features (why else would I keep a Nagant revolver?). Modern MLs and inlines are in the middle. They evoke no historical notions and they don't do anything as well as a modern firearm. I own a couple to fool with, but I can already tell they will always remain a tool for me, and not a favored one. If you feel differently, that is great. It would be an awful boring world if we all liked the same stuff.

Thank you for a reply that actually is based in rationale thought and not emotional outbursts based on feelings or personal taste.

I too do not own a modern muzzleloader and I can't tell you uf I was looking to get a long gun whether I would go with a repro of a historic arm or a modern design. I tend to think smoothbores are better and more useful than rifles for muzzleloaders, but it's tough to find any single shot smoothbores that are percussion fired other than repros of the 1842 Springfield.

For a rifle I've thought about a double barrel Pedersiloli Kodiak. Not a historical repro, but an awesome gun nonetheless.

Yeah, we all have our own personal tastes, but my issue was those dengrating something because plastic and not being able to speak to their quality.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

You need to expand your search on those smooth bores, I see them all the time around here. Try Track of the Wolf and Gunbroker. I know several people that shoot them on a regular basis with amazing accuracy.

 

[hawg]

it's tough to find any single shot smoothbores that are percussion fired other than repros of the 1842 Springfield.

That's because historically not many were made other than shotguns.

 

[Seedy Character]

The "cost" keeps getting repeated.

IF the Diablo was available with 18" barrels and a buttstock, same material, same quality; the cost would be comparable.

A BP Coach Gun. More acceptable? More "worth the price"?

I would be fun to squirrel / rabbit hunt with.
A Cowboy shoot would great, except for the reloads. 2 shot limit, I would shoot it.

I still have no desire to own one, but it could be fun to have.

 

[TTv2]

That's because historically not many were made other than shotguns.

A musket practically is a single shot muzzleloading shotgun.

The adherents to traditionalist designs on here would probably support a ban on using optics during muzzleloading season because that's not how Daniel Boone done did it.

I don't understand the resistance to black powder shooting evolving with time to incorporate new technologies.

 

[brewer12345]

A musket practically is a single shot muzzleloading shotgun.

The adherents to traditionalist designs on here would probably support a ban on using optics during muzzleloading season because that's not how Daniel Boone done did it.

I don't understand the resistance to black powder shooting evolving with time to incorporate new technologies.

Actually, no optics is a requirement for ml season in my state. As long as I can still see the open sights, it's all good. I appreciate the challenge. If I want to use a 20x sight with 6.5 manbun and shoot deer at 1000 yards, rifle seasons await.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

A musket practically is a single shot muzzleloading shotgun.

The adherents to traditionalist designs on here would probably support a ban on using optics during muzzleloading season because that's not how Daniel Boone done did it.

I don't understand the resistance to black powder shooting evolving with time to incorporate new technologies.

I don't mind some evolution, I just choose not to evolve along with it, only exception is ROAs, love them! Just no zip guns, don't like zip guns.

 

[hawg]

The adherents to traditionalist designs on here would probably support a ban on using optics during muzzleloading season because that's not how Daniel Boone done did it.

I don't understand the resistance to black powder shooting evolving with time to incorporate new technologies.

Muzzleloading to me is about history. It's not about getting extra time to deer hunt. I would absolutely get behind a ban on optics and a ban on inlines. Actually here we can use scopes, we can use single shot breech loading cartridge rifles with external hammers as long as they're .35 caliber and up, we can even use smokeless powder. Actually on private lands after the first primitive weapons season we can use any rifle that's legal during regular gun season including AR 15's with 30 round mags. You're just as likely to find me in the woods during regular gun season with my .54 Hawken as you are to find me with my 30-06. Muzzleloading has no business evolving.

 

[woodnbow]

They are extremely useful and portable for Alaskan fishermen, for bear defense.
2 fast shots with slugs, just pray there aren't 3 bears nearby.

I have no desire to own one.

My neighbor killed a mountain grizzly, estimated weight about 600#. It took 4 rounds from his .378 to bring it down for good. He’s a good shooter and every shot hit heart or lungs. They are known for their tenacity and I’d be very surprised if two rounds from the Diablo would take one down unless you were shooting from cover and he didn’t know you were there. If I were told a charging bear was in my future? At a minimum I’d want something
45 caliber, 300 grains and rolling along at 1300 fps or better. Double action and six rounds sil vous plait…

As a range toy? I’m sure they’re selling quite a few. I’ve never heard anyone complaining about a lack of quality so… if it floats your boat sure why not?

 

[woodnbow]

A musket practically is a single shot muzzleloading shotgun.

The adherents to traditionalist designs on here would probably support a ban on using optics during muzzleloading season because that's not how Daniel Boone done did it.

I don't understand the resistance to black powder shooting evolving with time to incorporate new technologies.

Some people remember the fight to get seasons specially for archery and or blackpowder big game hunting. The original argument was that the impact on populations would be less due to the relatively inefficient weapons used by archers and BP enthusiasts at the time. Significantly more time and effort we’re required to kill animals regularly with primitive weapons. But humans being human, soon people began to “improve” upon the technologies so that they too could bring home the bacon in primitive weapons seasons. It wasn’t very long before advertisers were touting the extended ranges possible with the evolving technologies. Archers could now buy a system over the counter and in a few weeks be hitting well enough to put all of those arrows into a pie plate at 60 yards as opposed to the same accuracy at 20 yards. Muzzleloaders touted “all weather reliability and accuracy and power at ranges equal to centerfire rifles… this is fine as long as you’re not calling such weapons primitive. They just aren’t.

So yes, in a primitive arms season I would support a ban on optical sights… and yes, that means some folks won’t be able to participate in that season which is in some ways unfair. Fortunately, we all know by now, life isn’t fair. You can’t do some things that I can and vice versa. I’m okay with that.

I sometimes hunt muzzleloader season, bugling elk is a really great and addictive pursuit, but often just hunt in the regular rifle seasons using exclusively “primitive” side locks with iron sights. I don’t feel handicapped by those choices but I live here in the middle of a hunters paradise and I and my family own land so I have opportunities not available to the average joe so I understand how a person would feel upset about other hunters “cheating” in the primitive weapons seasons. It’s not the advance of the technology that’s the problem per se’…

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

AGC needs to release an upsized version called the Balrog (or something not copyright protected, I suppose) in 8 or 6 gauge equivalent bore diameter. A real modern blunderbus would be pretty cool.

 

[hawg]

AGC needs to release an upsized version called the Balrog (or something not copyright protected, I suppose) in 8 or 6 gauge equivalent bore diameter. A real modern blunderbus would be pretty cool.

Nobody could shoot it. That would be worse than a 45-70 derringer.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Just make it a twelve pounder and be done with it.

 

[TTv2]

AGC needs to release an upsized version called the Balrog (or something not copyright protected, I suppose) in 8 or 6 gauge equivalent bore diameter. A real modern blunderbus would be pretty cool.

I wouldn't want it in a handgun, but I've been digging the idea of a modern smoothbore 4 bore shotgun for a while. I want to load it with 8 shot and basically make it a man portable punt gun.

 

[hawg]

I wouldn't want it in a handgun, but I've been digging the idea of a modern smoothbore 4 bore shotgun for a while. I want to load it with 8 shot and basically make it a man portable punt gun.

Why? You can't hunt with it.

 

[TTv2]

Why? You can't hunt with it.

AFAIK, there's no caliber restriction on bird hunting for muzzleloaders and it's not like a 4 bore is a legitimate punt gun, it's just a really big bore.

 

[hawg]

I don't think muzzleloaders are exempt from gauge size.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

I don't think muzzleloaders are exempt from gauge size.

They absolutely are, federally at least. You can mail order a cannon.

 

[Rustmangler]

Can I use I load my three inch Cannon with grape shot go get some geese? I don't think so.

 

[hawg]

They absolutely are, federally at least. You can mail order a cannon.

What has a cannon got to do with the price of eggs in China? You can't hunt with it. I checked a number of states game laws. Some states you can use an 8 gauge for doves and turkeys but nothing larger than an 8 gauge. Others you can't. No states I found have a muzzleloading season on birds. So to me that says a shotgun is a shotgun whether it's a muzzleloader or not.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

What has a cannon got to do with the price of eggs in China? You can't hunt with it. I checked a number of states game laws. Some states you can use an 8 gauge for doves and turkeys but nothing larger than an 8 gauge. Others you can't. No states I found have a muzzleloading season on birds. So to me that says a shotgun is a shotgun whether it's a muzzleloader or not.

I wasn’t ever talking about such a thing as a fowling piece. I think it would be fun to shoot, and possibly for launching projectiles capable of delivering payload (entirely theoretical, but possible).