Whats with the Dillon XL650 - If it uses standard dies, why sell 'caliber' versions?

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braindead0

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I'm thinking about an XL-650...if I'm going to bother upgrading, I might as well go for the gusto.

As I browse around the websites, they sell various XL650's for specific calibers, and yet the dies aren't included? Besides, I've already got dies.

What's with that? Do they just set it up at the factory for you?
 
The dies are placed in the tool head and adjusted, you then change the toolhead (with the next calibers dies) to change calibers, setting remain the same on the dies, when you change back change the toolhead.

The Caliber conversion applies to the shell plate that indexes and holds the cases, different cases have different sizes, a .32 ACP case is much smaller than a .44 mag case, so you need a different caliber conversion shell plate.

The conversion consists, of a shell plate, brass pins and an expander/powder funnel that bells the case.

So for each caliber you need:

1. Set of standard dies in that caliber = $50

2. Caliber conversion = $35 (for a 550 I have)

3. tool head to hold the dies.= $12

4. Powder die (sets the height for belling) = $8

If you have auto case feed you need a shell sorter plate.

I move my powder measure from on head to another, Dillon would like to sell you one for each caliber, but the powder die holds the adjustment, and the measure takes 30 seconds to move.
 
MasterBlaster has the right idea. When I got my XL650, it came set up for 45 Colt complete. To switch to other cartridges you need the stuff he listed but not necessarily Dillon dies. However, you may need to change the lock rings as some non-Dillon dies have larger diameter lock rings than the tool head will accept when putting one die next to the other.

BTW, the 650 is really slick and can turn out a lot of ammo fast.
 
So the 'caliber specific' part is just that it comes with the proper shell-plate and an empty tool head.. (shell sorter?)..

I'd just rather not bother buying another set of dies ;-)... I'm currently using a rockchucker with a piggyback III and I love it, but would love it more if it auto-indexed..fed cases and bullets... I'd also like a powder check as well, but I'm seating and crimping with seperate dies (profile crimp) and no more holes left.

Does the 650 feed bullets too?

Does the powder check option require a position in the tool head?

and.. what?
Powder die (sets the height for belling)

I bell my cases with an expander die ;-).. I presume

Thanks for the help guys!
 
You can substitute an RCBS Lockout Die for the Dillon Powder Check system. The RCBS is less expensive and is, in my opinion, more reliable than the Dillon system.

You don't need to use an expander die with the Dillon system, as the powder drop tube in the powder die does the expanding. If you're going to use the casefeeder (highly recommended), the caliber conversion kit also contains parts that are required for feeding different caliber cases. You don't necessarily need a complete caliber conversion kit for each caliber that you load...some of the calibers share components.

Dillon does not offer a bullet feeder; Lee does, but it sucks, BIG TIME!

I just use one Dillon powder measure. I also use a Hornady/Pacific drum-type powder measure with Hornady's case-activated kit, primarily for loading bottleneck cartridges.
 
Hmm, why doesn't anybody make a 6 station? Assuming the powder takes one (probably would have to), I would imagine that you still have to use an expander die (adjusted to no flare?) then with a decapper and seperate seating/crimping.. no room for powder check... I don't think I'd want to run a machine capable of this much production without a powder check, and I'm certainly not going to give up the convenience of seperate crimping (sure makes bullet change much easier).

Oh well, I guess I'll stick to what I've got....for now.
 
Dillon 1050 has 8 stations.
Casefeed
Resize-decap
Primer pocket swage-expand case neck
Reprime
Powder charge
Powder check (not included, vacant on mine)
Bullet seat
Crimp-eject

But it is rather inconvenient to change loads due to Dillon's design quirks of no setscrew lockrings and seat and crimp dies not adjustable except by screwing the whole die body in or out.

I am not smart enough to change calibers on it.

I just shifted back from light load .45ACP roundnose for my revolver to Major PF SWCs for the autos. I think I will get a .45 setup for my 550 the next time I want to load something different. I have dies left over from the single stage days and extra head plates that came with the slightly used press, so all it will take is a shellplate/powder funnel conversion.
 
braindead: (Hmmmmmmmmmmmm) Maybe there was something confusing in my post about how the 650 works. You size/deprime on Sta. 1; drop powder/expand on Sta 2; Powder check on Sta.3; seat bullet, Sta. 4; crimp , Sta. 5. That ought to be pretty clear! :)
 
Oh, so you're saying the powder die is a proper expander for the caliber you use, I didn't get that.. I thought it was just a case mouth flare...

So perhaps my dreams of spending less than 15min per 100 could still be a reality ;-)
 
Nero Steptoe has got it down for you. I have the same arrangement and I have a station open for powder check if I want it. Primer seating is between step 1 & 2. I use non-Dillon dies but they fit tight like I said before because of thicker lock rings than Dillon uses. The case feeder is great. You use the left hand for placing the bullet in the case.
 
Okay, I think I've got it figured now.. I didn't realize the powder feed did the whole expanding job..

Sure sounds like it beats, right hand turn shellholder... left hand insert bullet..right hand insert new shell... crank...and repeat.

I can manage to insert bullet and new case at roughly the same time ;-)..
 
"I can manage to insert bullet and new case at roughly the same time ;-).."

Maybe we're having some kind of communication problem. If you get a 650 with a casefeeder, you don't need to insert anything but the bullet. I also don't really understand your "expanding" question. For handgun ammo, the only expanding you do is slightly belling the case mouth to make bullet insertion easier.

With rifle ammo, some dies use an expander button (that's on Sta 1), but others don't use an expander button.
 
If you need to ask this many questions about the 650, you don't need one.

I suggest you invest in the Dillon instruction manual for the machine and then, if you have further questions, call Dillon at their 800 #.

http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=24&dyn=1&

The 650 is a great machine IF, you have the need for volume. My need fell off over a year ago and my 650 has sat dormant for nearly that long.

Dillon will tell you on the phone and in their ads, the 550B is their best seller or most popular press by far.
 
If you need to ask this many questions about the 650, you don't need one

Because I want to be informed about features, you think I don't need one? And why in the world would I by a 550 when it doesn't do anything my rockchucker with piggyback III can't do?

I go through about 2000rounds a month, loading that on a manual indexing press without a shellfeeder takes me about 5 or 6 hours per month... I think with the 650 I should be able to cut that down quite a bit (justifying the press of course ;-).
 
I guess it was your "screen name" that helped form my opinion of your abilities or lack of. :rolleyes:

Again, I suggest you get the Dillon video on the 650.
 
braindead,

Don't feel bad about asking questions. I recently went through the same decision process. I have a Rock Chucker and HAD a Lee Pro 1000 until I gleefully gave it away! I started shooting much more and working much more and those two don't mesh with spending time with my wife so I had to save some time somewhere. Being a newlywed, the wife time is important. ;)

I looked at the Hornady L&L AP, Dillon 550, RCBS 2000 and Dillon 650. After using the Lee Crap 1000 for about 15,000 rounds (jamming every 25th round), I could not imagine having to manually feed cases into the press so I ruled out the 550 and the RCBS. The L&L priming system seems to be lackluster and if it was anything like the Crap 1000 priming problem, I didn't want to have anything to do with it.

So that left the 650. I am on a budget however and decided not to fork over the money for the casefeeder right away. This was contrary to many online recommendations from people who said that the 550 is faster than the 650 without a casefeeder. I figured that was bologna and I ended up being right, in my mind at least. I bought a 650 with the aluminum roller handle and the powdercheck system for about $500 shipped. I use my RCBS resizing/decapping and seating dies and a Lee Factory Crimp die in the fifth station. They work flawlessly. As far as feeding cases, the stock tube that comes with the 650 is only about 16 inches long. I went to my local plastic/plexiglass supplier and bought 10 pieces of 42 inch tubing that I fill with brass in my spare time (like when watching 24 or Scrubs). The 10 tubes give me enough brass for 600 rounds, which I can load in about 45 minutes at full speed. I also bought extra primer pickup tubes that I fill in my spare time instead of buying the Dillon primer tube filler. I can't see spending almost $200 for that but the Frankford Arsenal filler looks tempting for less than $40. So, if you don't include the spare time it takes to fill the brass tubes and primer tubes, I can load about 800 rounds an hour at full speed.

As far as buying a video, I thought the instruction book was fine as long as you know a little about reloading. Before using the press at all, I suggest setting it up and cycling it through about 20 strokes to get a look at all the parts and how it operates. Using a progressive in the past may have helped me out some, but not much. The key thing to remember is to advance the first primer to the priming station on the round turret before filling that case with powder. It makes a little mess with no primer. I've done that twice. Once on the first round I loaded (not quite) and once the second time I fired up the press. Hasn't happened since and won't unless I forget. Forgetting is unlikely now that I know how much of a pain it is to clean up. However, compressed air is a useful tool for cleanup.

Bottom line, the 650 is a gift from God and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Instead of taking 1.5 hours to load ammo for a match, it takes less than 15 minutes.
 
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"I can't see spending almost $200 for that but the Frankford Arsenal filler looks tempting for less than $40"

The Frankford Arsenal tool works! Hint: 86 the plastic "adapters" and just hold the tube into the tool with your "off" hand. Filling a tube takes under 10 seconds.
 
Thanks guys, now there's a good bit of information. I wasn't aware that the 'case feeder' was really more like an auto tube filler and you can do without and still get automatic case placement into the shell holder (if I understand this correctly).

I've used a 550b before, granted the 650 is a big step up but I think I can manage, and I'll keep the shop vac and compressed air handy in case of any oopsies ;-).

As far as filling primer tubes, I have no problem doing that kinda thing while watching the tube or something... Sounds like perhaps the 650, an RCBS powder check die and I'll be mostly set. I can make a fancy roller handle without any difficulty, and save money there too.
 
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