Dillon Upgrade: XL650 or 1050 ?

[jake556]

• What's with the limited warranty on the 1050 ?

I was told that many people that have 1050's automate them so this puts alot more wear & tear that normal.

 

[jmorris]

They had the same (lack of) warranty before we all started automating them.

 

[RhinoDefense]

Automation does not add any wear and tear to the press.

 

[cfullgraf]

Automation does not add any wear and tear to the press.

Generally true. Wear per cycle would be about the same but since the automated unit cycles more per unit time, wear per unit time is increased.

So, it wears out faster.

 

[RhinoDefense]

No. Your arm can operate the press at a faster rate than the automated power drive. The automated power drive on the market currently cannot operate faster than you can with your arm.

PW auto drive cycle rate: 900 or 1200 rounds per hour (depending on rifle or pistol model)
Manual cycle rate with bullet feeder: 1600 to 2000 rounds per hour

Automation does not increase wear beyond manual operation.

 

[jmorris]

I’ll agree. It is a bit faster by hand but with the auto drive you can multi task a bit. Also there are some guys that seem to be able to break an anvil with a rubber mallet, judging from some of the damage I have seen and read about. With the auto drives you have a clutch to avoid the “I just pulled on it until it broke”.

 

[RhinoDefense]

The auto drive does offer the benefit of multi tasking as well as lack of fatigue. I use auto drives to process brass and then it's loaded by hand. The clutch is nice on the auto drives, but we can load faster manually than with automation so we only use them for brass processing.

 

[Trent]

Rhino, do you have any video link available showing an automated Dillon in action? I'm not going to do it, myself, but I'd often wondered what it would look like to hook a reciprocating motor up where the handle is, merely from a curiosity standpoint.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

While in and of itself, automation may not increase wear, automation is usually associated with much higher usage (made possible by the reduction in fatigue). Most users don't consider automation unless they are reloading very high quantities.

Automation also removes the user from direct contact with the machine, so the chances of feeling something go wrong while using it are much less, so problems tend to multiply more quickly than they would if the machine was being used by hand. Just like your homeowners insurance will go up if nobody lives there full-time, because small problems that would normally be caught earlier, are not caught until they become much more expensive problems.

Andy

 

[joed]

Curious what kind of output those with a 650 are getting. I have both a 650 and 1050 and like both. I have the 1050 setup for large primer and the 650 for small, makes for easier caliber changes.

I will agree that the 1050 is better for longer runs of cartridges but I'm just lazy. The 650 seems to need more adjustment to work right where the 1050 throws out big piles of ammo with little tinkering.

In all honesty I wish I'd never gotten the 650 and bought a second 1050. The 1050 is a work of art. I find myself always trying to come up with a reason to use it.

I still like the 650 but it just doesn't seem to be able to come close to the 1050 for output.

 

[cfullgraf]

No. Your arm can operate the press at a faster rate than the automated power drive. The automated power drive on the market currently cannot operate faster than you can with your arm.

PW auto drive cycle rate: 900 or 1200 rounds per hour (depending on rifle or pistol model)
Manual cycle rate with bullet feeder: 1600 to 2000 rounds per hour

Automation does not increase wear beyond manual operation.

Interesting. Usually equipment operated manually can be automated at least the same speed and frequently higher. I guess the manufacturers of the automation equipment for the press have decided to keep operating rates low.

From years of working on high speed consumer goods production lines, I frequently see hourly/daily production levels increase when machine speeds are slowed down. Improvement in efficiencies far out strip the potential production increase due to the faster machine speed.

So, if you can sustain a manually operated production level almost twice that of the automated machine, I agree, the wear and tear during manual operation will be greater than during the automated operation.

 

[9X23WIN]

I have two 550s and three 650s and enjoy the simplicity of the 550s.

 

[RhinoDefense]

Cfullgraf, the primary function of the auto drive is to reduce operator fatigue. The machine cyclic rate is designed for 1200rph, but is mechanically able to exceed this safely. The PW auto drive was designed to duplicate this advertised 1200rph (by Dillon Precision) cyclic rate. An alternative rate (900rph) was developed for rifle loading since there is more stress on the system under load. Longer brass (say .223 versus .45) has a longer time the brass is in contact with the dies. Another reason the lower rate for rifle was to allow enough dwell time for the powder to dispense from the measure to the casing without spillage.

 

[jmorris]

I size and trim before loading so there isn't any more stress than pistol rounds. Here is a short video of 2400 rpm speed on a 1050 loading 223. The auto drive is quite a bit slower but I can fill the primer filler and case gauge while it's loading so it still saves a lot of time.

 

[RhinoDefense]

Sizing off press would make it less stress than pistol since nothing is happening to the case body but just the neck.