Whats wrong with my handgun work?

[DontBurnMyFlag]

Hey everyone. I found out the pistol that a certain Police department uses is the S&W Model 5906 Its the department I recently got hired for. I just have to pass some tests and whatnot. (God Willing)

Anywho, I decided to try it out at the range. It was only my second time ever firing that pistol. It has a lot of travel for the trigger, but the overall trigger pull isnt that bad. Its recoil is standard for a 9mm, but it seems to be harder to control than a glock, sig or other ergonomic pistol.

Anyway, I started off warming up at 10 yards. No misses, but a lousy group. It got better and better. I was standing with my legs should with apart, two arms holding the gun. I made sure my finger wasnt in the trigger so much that it pulled my shots to the right. I also made sure that my left hand that was cupping the gun wasnt pushing it to the right. After some great tips from the staff I was doing alright.

15 yards, was the exact same thing. However, the problem I seem to be having the most is that my shots are going really low. Every time I shot at the chest, it would go down towards the belly/groin area. Whats the deal???

Also, my one handed shooting (right hand) is so much better than my two handed. I got groups that were much tighter than the two handed shooting. Whats going on there?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Generally when you put shots 6 o'clock low, it means you are slapping the trigger (you are coming off the trigger during reset and pushing back with enough force that the muzzle dips slightly as you pull the trigger).

I'm sure there are other causes; but that is my most common problem.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

hmm, that seems to be my problem. I was using a technique for speed shooting that involved coming off the trigger during reset like you said. Of course, it was my first time trying it. I definatly felt my trigger finger pulling my hand down with each shot. Thanks.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

You mentioned cupping the gun. Have you tried using the offhand to immobilize the firing hand rather than cup than gun? Think of using your offhand with both thumbs forward where the offhand wraps around the fingers of the strong hand and minimizes the sympathetic squeeze by immobilizing the non-trigger fingers.

You might also ask for pointers from some of our IPSC shooters on how they utilize this technique effectively.

 

[UWstudent]

try dry firing it or putting spring loaded caps in the clip to see if you're flinching (anticipating the recoil).

seems to be a problem among new shooters

 

[migoi]

Possible mental block...

your seemingly low opinion of the firearm you will be issued has caused you to develop a self-fullfilling mindset of not being able to perform properly with this non-ergonomic, gag inducing firearm.

Just a theory...

migoi

 

[Owen]

The 5906 is a fantastic gun, so quit gagging

It's a nice heavy steel frame, so you shoud be finding it more controllable than the drastic plastic you mentioned. One of the high points is the extremely short single action reset. IIRC it's less than 1/8", so stop taking your finger off the trigger for your followup shots.

 

[Jeff White]

Owen,
The 5906 has an alloy frame. It was our dept. issue for 8 years. We had no real problems with it. It was the first general issue auto our PD went to. Scores went up across the board when we switched from S&W Model 65 and 66 revolvers to the 5906s.

Don't Burn My Flag,
Were you shooting the old cup and saucer grip? I didn't know anyone still taught that.

Jeff

 

[Owen]

Aluminum frame is a 5903

 

[GoBrush]

If you want to be cured of this problem buy some Snap caps and take a buddy to the range. Have your buddy load a magazine and randomly put a Snap Cap in with live ammo. You will quickly see what you are doing wrong. If you shoot better one handed it sounds like to me that you need to relax a bit when shooting with two hands. You should really work on your trigger work and like I said the snap caps will help. When you start dont worry about where you are hitting as long as it is down range just squeeze the trigger the result you are looking for is to not have any clue when the gun will fire remember squeeze dont pull the trigger.

Just my 2 cents practice and be careful out there.

Good Luck

 

[Jeff White]

Owen,
The Smith and Wesson website only shows the S&W 5906TSW:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...d=10001&productId=35408&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y
[/QUOTE]Smith & Wesson Tactical Series Pistols are perfect as either a duty handgun for law enforcement or as personal protection for any civilian. Compact and built with alloy frames, they are available as either 9mm or .40 S&W. The Tactical Series™ has Novak Lo Mount Carry sights for greater accuracy and are outfitted with a standard accessory equipment rail to hold a light or laser. With a checkered front strap and ambidextrous decocking lever for both right and left-handed shooters, they stand ready to perform during any emergency. (Night sights are available for Law Enforcement Only.)[/QUOTE]

Ours were not that model, we had the standard model with adjustable sights. They were purchased in 1992 and had alloy frames. I'm pretty sure that the 5906 always had an alloy frame.

This is from the page on the 5903:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...d=10001&productId=35406&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

Smith & Wesson Tactical Series Pistols are perfect as either a duty handgun for law enforcement or as personal protection for any civilian. Compact and built with alloy frames, they are available as either 9mm or .40 S&W. The Tactical Series™ has Novak Lo Mount Carry sights for greater accuracy and are outfitted with a standard accessory equipment rail to hold a light or laser. With a checkered front strap and ambidextrous decocking lever for both right and left-handed shooters, they stand ready to perform during any emergency. (Night sights are available for Law Enforcement Only.)

As you can see, they use the same description for both pistols, and they both specify an alloy frame.

I was hoping my memory hadn't failed me. We got rid of the 5906s when the dept bought Glock 21s in 2000. Haven't handled one since.

Jeff

 

[ATAShooter]

The problem is your sights... Get you a set of GangstaBoyz sights and install...

 

[Old Dog]

Hey, I'm totally with Migoi on this one:

your seemingly low opinion of the firearm you will be issued has caused you to develop a self-fullfilling mindset of not being able to perform properly with this non-ergonomic, gag inducing firearm.

I've seen it happen time and again. (Usually trying to teach guys how to shoot the M-9, and they project their opinion, based on all the bullcrap they've heard about it, on the weapon, without trying to shoot using good fundamentals.)

The 5906 is a decent handgun. Things could be worse for you; look at it this way: your new department could issue Glocks.

My 5906 is very accurate and has always proved reliable. I don't particularly like the slide-mounted safety system or the cheesy rubber grips, but the ergonomics are (for me) much better than some other pistols. The Novak sights are quite good, so I'm not sure why you'd be having a problem shooting this pistol, unless you're totally used to Glocks; were you shooting a rental pistol with badly regulated sights?

 

[David Blinder]

Can't be sure without seeing you shoot but I'd bet on poor follow through. You are probably looking to see where you hit before completing the shot which is causing your muzzle to dip. Try this and see if it helps: Cut a few shapes (triangle, 1/4 moon, diamond, etc) in a target or a backer. Make them fairly small (3-6") and then shoot the through the shape. Ideally, you should have no bullet holes in the surrounding area. In order to do this drill, you are going to have to focus on the top edge of the front sight, press off the shot without disturbing the sights and then reaquire a new sight picture. In other words, for every shot, you will have two sight pictures. If you don't execute good fundamentals, especially trigger control and follow through, this drill will be virtually impossible.

There are several other possible causes but 99% of the time, poor follow through is to blame for what you have described.

 

[english kanigit]

I've noticed a similar problem with myself and my XD-9. I'm accustomed to single action triggers with a very short pull. If I really concentrate, I'll put 'em (almost) right where I want them. Any time I try speeding up, the hits start moving down the target....

 

[Average Guy]

No one has mentioned this, but my first thought was "grip angle." I normally shoot a Glock 19 or a 1911, and whenever I pick up a Smith auto, I invariably end up pointing at the floor.

Just a thought.

 

[treebeard]

I guess I am in the same boat. I need some snap caps too. I have noticed that when I take the time to aim and squeeze the trigger my rounds usually go where I aim on the target. Shooting when it is 20 degrees out could be part of my problem too!! I hate winter sometimes.

 

[m14rick]

Qualifying with 5906

In a previous life as a peace officer, I was a firearms instructor. Started instructing when the issue sidearm was S&W model 10, went to the sheriff's office where we eventually were issued S&W 5906. They still use 'em, in fact.
I don't know where you live, but you probably will have to attend an academy of some sort, where firearm instruction should be covered.
I would hope your department has a firearms instructor, who can be a lot of help to you. I would heartily suggest you not teach yourself some bad habits by practicing by yourself.

 

[treebeard]

I live in a small town in NH and the police dept. is volunteer. Just kidding, but the fire dept. really is volunteer. Fortunately, I live close (about 30 minutes) to where Sig offers their classes. I will taking one in March.

 

[MNgoldenbear]

The 5906 has an alloy frame.

Pretty sure that owen had this one right.

Third generation of S&W semi-autos was introduced in 1990 by four digit numbered models. The third generation also introduced ambidextrous safety/decocker levers and double action only and decocker only models. Other innovations were new chamberings (.40 S&W, 10mm auto and .45ACP) and new Novak lo-carry three dot combat sights. The three-piece grips were replaced by polymer, one piece wrap-around grips.
The 10mm auto pisols, built on large .45ACP frames, were adopted by FBI and some police departments, but didn't caught the market and were discontinued from production in mid-1990s. The .40SW caliber line, on the other hand, was built on the 9mm frames, and still in production.
Later, S&W improved the third generation with introduction of TSW (Tactical Smith&Wesson) modifications, that featured acessory rail, mounted under the frame, ahead of the triggerguard.

The key to third generation S&W model numbering is as follows:

First two digits - caliber and frame type (for 9mm only).
39xx - 9mm single stack magazines
59xx - 9mm double stack magazines
69xx - 9mm compact, double stack magazines
40xx - .40 S&W
10xx - 10mm auto
45xx - .45 ACP

Third digit - trigger type and frame size
xx4x - DAO
xx5x - DAO, compact
xx8x - DAO

xx2x - DA w decocker
xx3x - DA w decocker
xx7x - DA w decocker, compact

xx0x - DA
xx1x - DA, compact
xx6x - DA, large frame

Fourth digit - Frame material (all models had stainless steel slides)
xxx3 - Aluminium alloy frame
xxx6 - Stainless Steel frame

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg01-e.htm
This site did note that its info may be incomplete, and they did seem to have a photo of a pistol they referred to as a 5906 that appeared to have a blued/black finish. However, the info about the coding of the model numbers seems to match what I remember about S&W from the early '90s. I had just about settled on getting a 4006, then tried a 686 -- no contest. Always meant to get back to getting a 4006, but never did. (First centerfire weapon I'd fired -- haven't been shooting long, but dove into it to make up time!)

Not sure if the TSW is a "different animal", or if the newer ones are now alloy or what. I do remember the heft of the pistols I tried out, and I'm pretty sure they were all steel-framed.

 

[SwampWolf]

Owen has it exactly right. The 5906 was always a steel-framed pistol, irrespective of its various modifications.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Don't Burn:

As I recall, you're in my neck of the woods. If you want to setup some 1:1, I'd be happy to help.

 

[Soybomb]

I'd take a 5906...it won't fail you..

Anyway I found this really helped me get a grip that worked well for me. Ymmv http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=927849

 

[gezzer]

Buy a case of ammo and practice. Use the sights and you will start hitting where they are aimed. I don't care what type or make the gun is.

The 5906 is not a bad gun.

 

[Bob F.]

Learn to "ride the sear" with any semi-auto. To fire 1 shot, pull trigger (duh) but DO NOT release the trigger. Reaquire the sight picture and very slowly ease the trigger finger off the trigger just until you feel it "click"-reset. STOP!
Squeeze the trigger to fire again, repeat 10,000 times! Just explaining what Owen said near the top of the page. I had a 5906 and hated it! Just didn't fit my hand. Shot well when I rode the sear.

Stay safe.
Bob