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What's YOUR favorite? Colt 1860 Army .44 or Remington 58 New Army .44 and why?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by avatarshots, Feb 21, 2014.

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  1. avatarshots

    avatarshots Member

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    I have both the Uberti 1860 Colt Army .44 and the Uberti Remington 58 New Army .44.
    Both shoot straighter than any autoloader I own and both are fun to load and shoot. Neither one has problems with caps jamming or other issues I've seen others post about. Maybe I've been lucky :)
    I'm just wondering what others think of either or both guns.
    I'm thinking about putting Ivory grips on the Colt, and ebony grips on the Remmy, which is stainless steel.
    Both shoot best with 457 round balls and 30gr of Pyrodex
     
  2. EljaySL

    EljaySL Member

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    They're both great and both have pros and cons. I probably shoot the 1858 the most out of my cap and ball revolvers, but that may just be because I have more Colt variations and they tend to share the glory a bit.
     
  3. avatarshots

    avatarshots Member

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    LOL
    I actually like the ease of swapping cylinders with the 58 and it's more modern look. I probably shoot the Remny more because of that, but I love em both
     
  4. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    Don't have a 60.
    Like my 58 a lot.
    Like the way it looks.
    Like the way it shoots.
     
  5. jgh4445

    jgh4445 Member

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    Why the '60 of course! Such classic lines. Best looking revolver I've seen. Then again, there is the 61 Navy...
     
  6. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    The Ruger Old Army of course!
     
  7. elhombreconnonombre

    elhombreconnonombre Member

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    Remington due to ability to swap charged uncapped cylinders quickly without "disassembling".
     
  8. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    Aesthetics? 1860 Colt.

    Shooting out of the box? Zero hesitation, the 1858 Remmie. It's FAR more user friendly than the 1860, and avoids the manufacturing problems that render the common 1860 copies a "project in a box" before they can be made to shoot well.

    That's with a matched pair of Uberti 1858 Remmies, a single Pietta with a .45 ACP cylinder, and an ASM Remmie on one hand and about 25 1860 Colt copies on the other in my collection, including several that are perfectly tuned and set up to shoot well. The most highy tuned ones shoot about as well as the pair of Uberti Remmies did right out of the box.


    The above is for Italian copies. Find a Belgian Centennial/Centaure 1860 copy and things change.


    Willie

    .
     
  9. toolslinger

    toolslinger Member

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    The '60 for the simple fact that it fits my hand better. Remmies are excellent guns but they hurt my second finger just holding the dang thing. I keep threatening to open up the space behind the trigger guard, just haven't gotten to it.
     
  10. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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    I have both Uberti 1860s and Rem. new army. I shoot Colts most often and think they are easier to clean with the barrel off.
    I have done work on my Colts, arbor, cap rake, and wedge work (finger Push to remove)
    The "new Kid", my .36 '51 Pietta Navy is getting the most shooting lately, not scene yesterday.
     
  11. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    Remington

    I like a top strap

    AFS
     
  12. avatarshots

    avatarshots Member

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    Willie, what's the difference in the Belgian copies? There's a few Colt copies in one of the local gun shops near me.
     
  13. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

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    1860, hands down. For me, there is no better handling sixgun and none better looking.

    The 1871-1872 Open Top was really the ultimate incarnation of the 1860.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. tpelle

    tpelle Member

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    I have two 1860's, one 1851 Navy, and one Remington-Beals. I like them all, but overall I lean towards the 1860.

    First, in defense of the Remington-Beals, the triggerguard issue is in reality a non-issue. Yes, if you grasp the revolver with your second finger pushed all the way up into the curve where the grip and triggerguard meet, then yes, you would think your knuckle is going to take a beating. But in an actual firing grip your hand tends to slide down a little farther towards the heel of the grip to the point that the little finger curls under the grip frame. (It needs to be there anyway so as to control the upwards rotation of the revolver to allow your thumb to reach the hammer spur for cocking.) Your knuckle then clears the triggerguard, and I've never been rapped.

    However the Remington-Beals design does foul quicker than do the Colts.

    The ability to quickly swap cylinders being an advantage of the Remington-Beals is largely a modern urban legend, as there is no evidence that this was actually ever done. (I've extensively studied period gunleather, and if extra cylinders were routinely carried there would be original pouches for them, but where I find all sorts of cap boxes and pouches for paper cartridges abound, I have never run across a cylinder pouch.)

    The big advantage of the Colt design is, to me, the ease of maintenance. The big hefty cylinder arbor of the Colt hold up over more shots without fouling, but more importantly the removable barrel makes the Colt much faster and simpler to clean. I clean exclusively with water, and find that the only two parts of the revolver that need to be "dunked" are the cylinder and the barrel. The frame normally gets by with only a wipe down with a wet cloth, then a wipe with a dry cloth and an application of Ballistol. However, to thoroughly clean a Remington-Beals requires removing the grips and all of the lockwork, then dunking the entire frame/barrel in the water. It's simply more labor-intensive over the requirements of the Colt.

    Strength and accuracy are pretty much even between the two designs.

    It is true that the Remington-Beals is pretty much ready to shoot right out of the box, as the design seems to adapt to modern manufacturing methods better than does the Colt. On every Colt clone I have I find that I must refit the cylinder bolt and adjust the timing, as well as fit the barrel wedge, but once that's done they are excellent revolvers, and the work only requires time and a few files.
     
  15. Flatbush Harry

    Flatbush Harry Member

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    I have the same two guns and I enjoy them equally. I find the 1860 Army easier to cap and the cylinder of the 1858 Rem easier to load. I have 2 Uberti 1875 Rems that I use for CAS but I may pick up another 1860 for BP shooting in CAS matches...I prefer the handling and pointing, as well as the aesthetics, of the Colt replicas.

    FH
     
  16. DoubleDeuce 1

    DoubleDeuce 1 Member

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    1860 Colt. Fits me better, and I like the looks a lot more. Reminds me of the lower leg of a beautiful woman.:cool:
     
  17. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    avatarshots, limited production, better steel and by some considered to be the "true' 2nd gen Colt. Has to do with a 150yr old licensing agreement Colt made with Belgium mfgrs that allegedly never expired. Could you tell me the price on the ones you've seen, I could definitely be interested.
     
  18. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    "Willie, what's the difference in the Belgian copies? There's a few Colt copies in one of the local gun shops near me"

    To find one, skim your eyes across the prices and when there's a $700 one, ask to see it..

    The Belgian Centaure (as sold in Europe) or Centennial (as sold in the USA) were early 60's thru early 70's replicas that are the most accurate of the Colt copies. Many rank them with originals for quality, and prices rival the second generation Colts (and are probably better shooters). There is a specialized area of collecting these, and values are increasing as days go on. I've got not quite a dozen of them, and they are addictive. If your local place has one I would be very surprised, but if they do consider yourself very lucky and buy it without thinking about it.

    Hours and hours of reading here:

    http://www.1960nma.org/


    Willie

    .
     
  19. avatarshots

    avatarshots Member

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    LOL I just might take a trip to the gun shop in the morning and get that Belgium made Colt then. I think the price was 299 or 399 but it's probably negotiable. I actually looked at it when I got my Uberti 1860, but since I had no knowledge of BP revolver quality at the time, I chose the Uberti
    But I gotta say, my Uberti has NOT given me the problems that I read about others having. It shoots deadly accurate, the caps stay put and don't fall off into the works, etc
    If I DO get the Belgium made and it's all that though, I'll be selling the Uberti :)
     
  20. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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    The Colt, just read the history of it and you're hooked.
     
  21. avatarshots

    avatarshots Member

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    Reading right now :)
     
  22. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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    "Both shoot best with 457 round balls and 30gr of Pyrodex"


    Avatar, where are you getting that 457 round ball, I'd like to give it a try.
     
  23. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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    Craig, that is beautiful revolver!!!!!!

    Did you have that done, do it yourself or buy it like that?:)
     
  24. BowerR64

    BowerR64 Member

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    Ide take a 51 in .44 before a 60 and ide pick a 58 over a 51.
     
  25. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    "LOL I just might take a trip to the gun shop in the morning and get that Belgium made Colt then. I think the price was 299 or 399 but it's probably negotiable."


    If there's a Centennial at the LGS for either of those prices, and you don't buy it, you'll be doing yourself a huge disservice if condition was good.


    Willie

    .
     
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