Whats your oldest dated surplus ammo
- Thread starter nathan
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ol' scratch
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My oldest single round is RA 1941 in 30-06. I have a mess of SL 1943 M2 AP in 1903 Springfield stripper clips and bandoleers.
ol' scratch
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Are you sure it is HXP? I thought they only started making it in 1962.
Ignition Override
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1943 .303, manufactured in England.
This was my first .303 ammo purchase, and one of the last batches for sale at Samco in April '09,
before all of their English and Paki (POF) .303 was gone. Strange timing and should have bought 2,000 rds. instead.
This was my first .303 ammo purchase, and one of the last batches for sale at Samco in April '09,
before all of their English and Paki (POF) .303 was gone. Strange timing and should have bought 2,000 rds. instead.
madcratebuilder
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War2 7.35 Carcano, War2 .303 Enfield. Post war Garand and carbine, War1 M1 ball for display only.
Late 1850's paper /powder/lead charges for cap and ball Colt revolvers.
Late 1850's paper /powder/lead charges for cap and ball Colt revolvers.
squarles67
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It's the greek stuff from CMP still in the bandoliers. All from the mid fifties
There is a darn good reason why the UN, Nato, are concerned about old ammunition. The stuff goes Kaboom. Nitric acid builds up in old gunpowder, creates heat, and the stuff blows up. It blows up inside the case or the shell.
There is a interesting article on at this NATO web page, the punch line is:
http://www.nato.int/docu/review/2011/arms-control/Danger-Stockpiles-Ammunition/EN/index.htm
Since 2009, there have been more than 50 recorded incidents of unplanned explosions at munitions depots in 34 countries.
Incidentally a Hizbullah munitions depot when up Christmas Eve!
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism...depot_explosion_southern_Lebanon_Dec_2012.htm
This is what an ammunition depot explosion looks like:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=13c_1205681217
Just imagine what would have happened if all 6 million pounds of demilled propellant had been hit by lightening at Camp Minden Louisiana Army Ammunition Plant. http://rn-t.com/view/full_story/210...Louisiana-scare?instance=home_news_lead_story Might have made all the explosions prior seem like a fire cracker!
http://www.ksla.com/story/19828119/authorities-investigate-loud-boom
These accounts are from the DECEMBER 2003 Propellant Management Guide:
1-4. BACKGROUND
a. Propellants and propelling charges that we store, transport and maintain warrant our special attention. Among commonly stored energetic materials, only nitrate ester-based propellants (principally nitrocellulose-based ones) have the propensity to spontaneously combust (self-ignite, autoignite) without warning while sitting in storage; catastrophic losses can result. Artillery and Small Arms propellants are perhaps the most dangerous materials that Army installations routinely handle and store. Propellant can be unpredictable, decomposing into an unstable condition within four or five years of manufacture. Inadequate propellant safety programs have contributed to several self-ignition incidents at military and commercial installations in the United States and abroad.
b. When grains, flakes, sticks or sheets of propellant inside a container ignite, sufficient heat and flame is produced to ignite the remaining propellant material in that container. If unstable propellant is present in even minimal quantities (e.g., a single container), it might combust and could lead to ignition of the entire contents of the storage structure. Propellant burns at a very rapid rate in a process that is known as deflagration. Deflagration differs significantly from detonation in that deflagration involves very rapid combustion that takes place on the surface of the propellant. Detonation, on the other hand, occurs due to a different process that involves a shock wave moving at supersonic speeds through the explosive material, thereby causing its nearly immediate decomposition. Simply put, deflagration operates on the basis of heat transfer, while detonation operates on the basis of a shock wave.
During the period 1984 through 1997, seven propellant autoignition events occurred at U.S. Army Materiel Command (AMC) installations.
1. 1984: Lake City AAP
IMR powder that was only 5 years old autoignited and the above ground magazine & its contents were destroyed. More than 100,000 lbs of powder deflagrated.
2. 1984: Lake City AAP
The same lot of IMR powder, a fragment quantity isolated and saved for critical production testing, autoignited two months after the previous fire. Only a small quantity of powder was lost, but another magazine was destroyed.
3. 1985: Blue Grass Army Depot
The local-stocks storage magazine use for demilitarization activities contained high explosives material as well as unmonitored M10 propellant powder. Autoignition of the powder and its resulting deflagration gradually ignited the other energetic materials present. The earth covered magazine and its contents were destroyed.
I only copied the first three examples as they involved gunpowder.
The reason your surplus ammunition was put out on the market is because it was at the end of a reasonable shelf life and was probably getting too dangerous to keep in their bunkers. It was cheap because the smart people did not want it anymore.
First world countries spend a lot of money figuring out which ammunition is still good, and which has gone bad. Collapsed communist countries and bankrupt third world countries either sell the stuff off to Americans, or they let the stuff explode in place.
This publication, minutes of a 2010 NATO meeting, the Bulgarian criteria for the usefulness of ammunition is of interest:
Environmental Impact of Munition and Propellant Disposal
2.2.3 Quantity of Conventional Ammunition in the Expired Term
Long experience from laboratory and range tests on ammunition has established that after 30 years of storage, they are not suitable for battle usage. On this basis, all unwarranted ammunition is divided into two groups – prior to 1975 and post 1975.
http://www.underwatermunitions.org/...f_Munition_and_propellant_disposal_-_NATO.pdf
This also might be of interest:
Field-Portable Propellant Stability Test Equipment
http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/issues/JulAug08/propellant_stab_eq.html
The bottom line is that old surplus ammunition has its risks. I would not have to make this point if this was 20 year old gasoline as everyone has a lawn mower that almost blew a head gasket with old gas. But when it comes to that “life time buy” of cheap surplus that you are sitting on, the denial that your pile is actually a pig in the poke is understandable.
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RockyMtnTactical
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1930's turkish 8mm
aka108
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I was give about 50 rds of 1926 6.5 Swedish mauser ctgs. All headstamped with the crown. Best shooting 6.5 I ever had. Kept 1 ctg.
tahunua001
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I have 2 1/2 spam cans of 45 ACP that was made in 1940 and repacked in spammies in 41. I also have a number of 06 from 47 and up.
AlfieB
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I have some H450 which I bought in 1973 for $1.75 per #. It still works just like it did in 1973. The biggest problem with older ammo is case neck splitting as the brass hardens with age, and mercuric primers (pre 1953), which are very corrosive.
TRX
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I still have part of a box of Belgian 7.65x53 Mauser, dated 1896.
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