Regolith
Member
You ever see a Sako Finnwolf? They were beautifully made. It's too bad they only made them for a decade or so.
The Sad Story of American Hunting Rifles
- Thread starter Shawnee
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You ever see a Sako Finnwolf? They were beautifully made. It's too bad they only made them for a decade or so.
Joe Demko
Member
Ah, I see. You are building an EBR that fires one of the improved intermediate cartridges. Then you are redefiniing lever gun to mean only the types of lever guns that fire cartridges less powerful than the one you intend to use.
If you do things that way, then I guess you are building an EBR more powerful than any lever gun.
dispatch55126
Member
You people and their new fangled contraptions such as lever actions and bolt actions. Why smokepoles and arrows were taking game far before these things came around.
cracked butt
Member
99% of the leverguns out there are chambered in 30-30 or a pistol cartridge. There are a few leverguns out there that are chambered in full power rifle cartridges, but their exception doesn't disprove the rule.
Matt-J2
Member
I highly doubt it's 99%. Maybe 92%. 
At any rate, there's a few others out there. The .45-70 is fairly common and certainly not underpowered, and while less common there's also .444 and .450. Neither of which I've ever seen described as anemic. Maybe even that .308MX, though I don't actually know much about that one.
I don't know how they compare exactly to all the AR types, so may I'm off, but I'd imagine they're comparable at the least. They also happen to be a more traditional type of lever gun.
At any rate, there's a few others out there. The .45-70 is fairly common and certainly not underpowered, and while less common there's also .444 and .450. Neither of which I've ever seen described as anemic. Maybe even that .308MX, though I don't actually know much about that one.
I don't know how they compare exactly to all the AR types, so may I'm off, but I'd imagine they're comparable at the least. They also happen to be a more traditional type of lever gun.
At the very least, the 30-30 is still a better choice than a 5.56 if you need to stop something big.
Although the 7.62x39 has a slight edge in energy (I think), if I had to stop some big animal hellbent on killing me, I'd still rather be launching 170 grain 30-30's at it than 123 grain 7.62x39's.
If you include 7.62x51mm rifles, the 99 Savage still matched it. The Browning BLR clearly leaves the FAL's and M1A's in the dust.
Although the 7.62x39 has a slight edge in energy (I think), if I had to stop some big animal hellbent on killing me, I'd still rather be launching 170 grain 30-30's at it than 123 grain 7.62x39's.
If you include 7.62x51mm rifles, the 99 Savage still matched it. The Browning BLR clearly leaves the FAL's and M1A's in the dust.
MCgunner
Member
You left out esthetically pleasing.
Negative. When loaded to potential, the .30-30 can push a 150 grain bullet to 2400 fps out of a 20 inch barrel. That's about what the 7.62x39 gets out of a 123 grain bullet. Most factory loads are wimpy, though, and somewhere around a little over 100 yards, the 7.62x39 catches up with the .30-30 in that it's shooting a better BC bullet. But, then, the .30-30 can shoot lever evolution and can shoot up to a 170 grain bullet.
However, the difference isn't worth arguing about.
I set up an SKS for hunting and am shooting 150 soft points in it and am quite happy with the rig for brush hunting. A M94 Winchester with a receiver sight sure is nice to carry, though. SKSs are clunky as hell by comparison. I don't know if it proves a thing, but the BLR is a fantastic rifle available in all manor of magnums. The intriguing one to me is the .325 WSM. Powerful ain't the word and in the shorter action BLR. It's right up there with the .338 Win Mag. If I lived in Alaska, I'd have one.
arthurcw
Member
I guess I don’t see the deal. If it kills what you are hunting, then it’s a good hunting rifle. Arguing about whether or not something is a Right and True hunting rifle seems like arguing about what really constitutes food. Some people like Thai, some like French, some like red meat, and some like seafood that was very recently sorting out this “life thing” and wondering, “why is the man in the funny hat trying to put me in the net?”
If you hunt with a lever gun and the beastie goes DRT, then it’s a good hunting rifle.
If you hunt with an EBR and the beastie does his best impersonation of a road hump on the spot… Good Hunting Rifle.
If you hunt with a bolt… same deal.
Black powder… Ditto
Of all the areas of guns that can be argued over, this seems like the most useless.
As you climb the “my gun needs to do X” chart for more complex tasks like Competition, HD/SD, Police, or Military use then sure… I can see getting ones knickers in a twist about what constitutes a useful gun. But for hunting? You got meat on the table? Then it’s a good gun.
If you hunt with a lever gun and the beastie goes DRT, then it’s a good hunting rifle.
If you hunt with an EBR and the beastie does his best impersonation of a road hump on the spot… Good Hunting Rifle.
If you hunt with a bolt… same deal.
Black powder… Ditto
Of all the areas of guns that can be argued over, this seems like the most useless.
As you climb the “my gun needs to do X” chart for more complex tasks like Competition, HD/SD, Police, or Military use then sure… I can see getting ones knickers in a twist about what constitutes a useful gun. But for hunting? You got meat on the table? Then it’s a good gun.
MCgunner
Member
I think it's just something different to talk about...
Shawnee
member
"I guess I don’t see the deal."
Actually Arthur, I think maybe you "see the deal" pretty well. "The deal" is: Hunting isn't, and shouldn't be, an "equipment game". It doesn't require "the ultimate" anything in the way of equipment, and fancier or smancier equipment is not "insurance".
As you opine - If a given shooter can put meat in the freezer with a given rifle/caliber - it's a capable combo.
But more to the point - Ya just can't buy skill and judgement and Ya can't substitute recoil and muzzle blast for it.
Actually Arthur, I think maybe you "see the deal" pretty well. "The deal" is: Hunting isn't, and shouldn't be, an "equipment game". It doesn't require "the ultimate" anything in the way of equipment, and fancier or smancier equipment is not "insurance".
As you opine - If a given shooter can put meat in the freezer with a given rifle/caliber - it's a capable combo.
But more to the point - Ya just can't buy skill and judgement and Ya can't substitute recoil and muzzle blast for it.
R.W.Dale
Member
What... is the average air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!
Shawnee
member
"What... is the average air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"
31.5 mph.
Now sit down and be quiet.
31.5 mph.
Now sit down and be quiet.
jerkface11
Member
What do you mean? An African or European swallow?
[singing] He is packing it in and packing it up And sneaking away and buggering off And chickening out and pissing off home, Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge.
R.W.Dale
Member
Why... I don't know that............AIEEEEEEEEEE!
Joe Demko
Member
Only if we decide that you are the one who gets to set the rules. You're weaseling now; because you didn't state any such qualifications upthread. Also, I expect your percentage isn't correct.
You're the guy making these claims; so when come back, bring cites.
MCGunner - I forgot about Leverevolution ammo. When you consider that it does give the 30-30 an edge. Looks like you're also right if we're talking 170 grain ammo.
My figures were looking at Remington's ballistics calculator with 150 grain ammo compared to 125 grain SP 7.62x39. According to that, it has less energy at 200 yards but not by much. Still, it's enough that some fruit loop would come along and correct me if I didn't mention it.
BTW, here it is. I look at it alot just to get a ballpark idea about ballistics.
http://www.remington.com/Products/Ammunition/Ballistics/
As for the rest of you guys, why do you get so bent out of shape about someone else's opinion?
And why do you spend so much time trying to get a thread closed.
If you disagree with someone, why not just have an adult discussion instead of trying to get a thread derailed and closed?
My figures were looking at Remington's ballistics calculator with 150 grain ammo compared to 125 grain SP 7.62x39. According to that, it has less energy at 200 yards but not by much. Still, it's enough that some fruit loop would come along and correct me if I didn't mention it.
BTW, here it is. I look at it alot just to get a ballpark idea about ballistics.
http://www.remington.com/Products/Ammunition/Ballistics/
As for the rest of you guys, why do you get so bent out of shape about someone else's opinion?
And why do you spend so much time trying to get a thread closed.
If you disagree with someone, why not just have an adult discussion instead of trying to get a thread derailed and closed?
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