Whats your opinion on Walther p22 and its stopping capability?

[meanmrmustard]

It's a good idea on the PK380 but he does like the .22. If anything I'll get him a SR22 since it's almost the same thing but with much better quality and it actually works right.

+1. If you're going to use a .22lr for carry or HD, why not one that already has a following of impressed users and no reputation (as far as mine and others who own them are concerned) for repeated and function hindering failure? I like the P22, I really do, but not so much as to trust my own life to it.

If called upon, I would bet my bottom dollar that a sheepdog could use the SR effectively, and with practice, make the shots count as if it were any bigger bore pistol.

Now, if we are on the fence about the round in question, chew on this:
Several weeks ago, I decided to see how far a Stinger would penetrate. At 15 yards, out of the SR22, it penetrated my Pistols of the World hardback book with roughly 350 pages while blowing a nasty, ragged hole through it. So, in an attempt to retrieve a bullet, I upped the ante. I placed a cardboard box, roughly 18 inches deep filled with newspaper (crumpled and folded) in front of the book. Pass through shot, devastating hole for a .22 once again. Finally, I placed a one gallon milk jug in front of box and book. I had to draw a target on it to know where all three items were aligned. Bullet placed in bull (such an accurate little bugger!) water flying, paper shredded. Part of the jacket was stuck in the book, but no slug. Hole through book was no where as big as the first two, but still impressive (1/4") that it was nowhere to be found.

Case in point: Ain't no coon shaking off a Stinger unless it's butt-shot.

 

[jim goose]

One major plus for a .22 with the right loads, is shot placement. I could hammer nails with my buckmark.

 

[Certaindeaf]

A .22 will dop a horse!












If you can hit a bobbing and weaving walnut.

 

[ExTank]

My Walther P22 has run like clockwork, without a single FF/FE, with just north of 3,000 rounds through it, feeding all kinds of off-the-shelf .22 ammo (whatever is available and cheapest).

My elderly Dad likes it, as it fits his hands well, and his arthritis won't let him handle much more than .22; but his is for HD, not Carry.

.22 is better than nothing, and for some, it's about all they can handle.


IMO, you could do worse for a SD gun than a Walther P22.

But you can also do a lot better.

 

[meanmrmustard]

A .22 will dop a horse!












If you can hit a bobbing and weaving walnut.

Some of us can. That's good news.

 

[mljdeckard]

First of all, I'm not a fan of using a .22 for defense if you don't absolutely have to.

Second, the P-22 is near the bottom of the list. They have turned out to be fragile imported junk with slides that crack easily. At least with my 1911 conversion I can dump 15 Stingers Center of Mass in about two seconds. Not my first (or second) plan, but it would certainly ruin someone's day.

 

[TAKtical]

Yeah Ive seen coons take off after being hit by stingers out of an mkiii. Do some research. Many people have had similar problems with .22lr from pistols. The round does not reach max velocity out of a short barrel. Your backyard test with newspaper, cardboard and a book is ridiculous and proves nothing. Use wet newspaper stuffed into gallon jugs. Or try ballistic gel like plenty of others on youtube have. A .22lr can glance off a coons skull when shot from a pistol, where it might have penetrated if it was shot from a 10/22 with a 16-18 inch barrel. If you feel safe carrying a .22 for whatever reason, go for it. I dont because I have seen (although rarely) multiple cases of .22lr from a pistol not stopping small game.

 

[mljdeckard]

Yeah. Even if I CAN hit a horse's eye, that doesn't mean at all that it will penetrate the skull.

 

[Manco]

They state that a .22 is nothing more then a fun range gun PERIOD. On the oher hand few have strongly contested otherwise and states that a good couple with .22 will stop the aggressor in its feet.

As with every ordinary pistol caliber, shot placement is what really counts. Larger "service" calibers such as 9x19mm offer more opportunities for effective shots (i.e. a greater area of the body in which shots will be effective), somewhat increasing your odds of achieving a successful stop per round, but the tradeoff is that they're harder to shoot, which for many people compromises both accuracy and rate of fire. The best caliber to use depends on how well the individual handles recoil, but in any case .22 LR, even out of a handgun, can achieve adequate penetration with the right loads (more critical for .22 LR than larger calibers), and therefore is effective.

That said, with this caliber I'd much rather use a revolver, due to reliability concerns.

I'd carry a .22 for SD. So long as loaded with Stingers, I'd feel alright about a SR22.

Stingers penetrate, and do it quite violently once inside. That'd be my round of choice, in say, the SR22. Perfect pair, IMO.

Hmmm...Stingers can penetrate just fine when they don't expand, but I think that the 3.5" and 3.4" barrel lengths of the SR22 and P22, respectively, make this kind of iffy. A 1.875" or 2.5" barrel, for example, should be safe, but ironically having too much velocity, given the design and construction of its bullet, renders the Stinger ineffective against human-sized targets, so I wouldn't want to use it with longer barrels. In my opinion, a safer general choice for both handguns and rifles would be either the Velocitor or the SGB (all of these loads are from CCI and have reliable priming).

If called upon, I would bet my bottom dollar that a sheepdog could use the SR effectively, and with practice, make the shots count as if it were any bigger bore pistol.

Well, being smaller and slightly less effective always applies, given the same shooter, but I reckon that .22 LR may well be more effective overall in the hands of those who shoot it significantly better than larger calibers.

Now, if we are on the fence about the round in question, chew on this:
Several weeks ago, I decided to see how far a Stinger would penetrate. At 15 yards, out of the SR22, it penetrated my Pistols of the World hardback book with roughly 350 pages while blowing a nasty, ragged hole through it.

Books are not flesh. At a sufficiently high velocity, which a Stinger bullet would have when shot out of a rifle or long pistol barrel, expansion will be explosive but penetration in flesh will be limited (which is fine for blowing up squirrels, but humans are obviously much larger).

 

[Fishbed77]

what you said may be true, or may be false
how do you know umarex didn't get walther engineers to do the work? and use their technology or manufacturing know how? i will doubt they paid big $ to buy walther just to put a name on the gun
and about quality, do you have any real data/statistics to prove your view? i dont know about p22, but pk380 seems to be just fine, and well liked by users, there are problems early on, but so are sig p238 and other big name companies

ns66,

What I said is true. I'm not sure why you have so much trouble believing that.

It's not conjecture. It's simply accepted fact. Go over to waltherforums.com (a great group of guys) and strike up a conversation there. There are a number of folks there who live in Germany and have been to Walther in Ulm. They will tell you what pistols are manufactured there based on first-hand knowledge. It's no closely-guarded secret.

Hell, the proofs on the guns show exactly where they were made (staghorn proof = Walther at Ulm, three-crowns-in-shield proof = Umarex in Cologne).

Umarex didn't buy Walther just to put the name on their gun. They bought Walther because, while a relatively smaller gun company, it is very profitable, especially in regards to the European law enforcement market (largely due to the success of the P99) and the high-end target pistol market. Using the Walther name on their products (yes, the P22 WAS designed by Umarex) did not happen for a number of years after the acquisition of Walther by Umarex.

As far as your desire for "any real data/statistics", I charge you to walk to a local gun store, pick up a P99AS in one hand, and a P22 or PK380 in the other. The difference in quality is vast and easily seen. Then go ask around at waltherforums, and your impressions will be verified by the owners there who lavish praise on the Ulm-manufactured guns, while deriding the Umarex ones. Also be sure to do a search for the Walther test videos showing P99s being fired underwater, full of sand, and after being frozen in ice.

Then go search for the "P22 Bible," which is basically whole book devoted to trying to make the P22 work as it should right out of the box.

 

[mooner]

Case in point: Ain't no coon shaking off a Stinger unless it's butt-shot.

I have a bit of experience regarding coons and 22lr as I live in the woods and have had alot of them getting into the cat food in my garage (but that's a whole other story).

I have never shot one with a stinger, but I have shot them with a velocitor out of a 10-22. If it is a full size coon and you get a body shot, the Velecitor will not exit. The round must be close to exiting because if it is a juvenile they pass through (i have a pea sized dent in my steel garage siding to prove it - so much for my theory).

I have also seen coons run off plenty of times from body shots that did not hit vitals. One I actually landed 3 body shots on with and he still managed to run off, and yes I know for a fact that all 3 shots connected. On the other hand I have seen them drop stone dead with Federal Bulk pack. Nothing to do with the ammo - everything to do with where the shot landed.

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

My wife carries a PK380 or a P22 just depending. We have both put the little P22 through the ringer. It has 4k+ rounds through it. While it isn't my first choice, If it were all I had or all I could conceal, I would feel safer with it, than without. Her P22 has been VERY reliable unless you throw federal bulk through it. But loaded with CCI Stingers, it shoots everytime..

I personally carry a .45 Sig P220R, I feel safe with it. But if the question is Unarmed or P22, the choice is easy. Also if that is the weapon someone is confortable with, they probably are better off with it than something else. The comfort zone plays a big part in my firearm choices...

Trust me though , listen to rcmodel. His advice is sound and proven...

 

[Certaindeaf]

Some of us can. That's good news.

Can? Like once in ten, a million? "Good news" for some seems kind of an odd statement.

 

[Manco]

Nothing to do with the ammo - everything to do with where the shot landed.

I don't think that we should take this idea to such an absolute extreme. Of course shot placement is paramount, but you still need penetration, without which shot placement would mean nothing. In .22 LR, most every cheap bulk load with a solid bullet can get the job done against humans, while other loads, even some premium ones, may have substantially inferior performance due to various combinations of factors (as I touched on in a previous post).

For instance, a Stinger shot out of a long enough barrel will expand violently and even fragment, which at this puny energy level makes it only minimally effective against human-sized targets. I would also recommend against hollow-points, except for the Velocitor, which expands but still penetrates deeply enough when shot out of a rifle, and hardly expands at all when shot out of a pistol (due to its particular bullet design and construction), allowing it to penetrate a human body sufficiently.

To reiterate, load selection does matter, and more for .22 LR than for larger calibers. You are correct that cheap bulk ammo is generally effective, although for reliability in defensive situations I'd feel more confident with some of CCI's premium products, namely the Velocitor and the SGB (not the Stinger or any of the fancier loads, which are optimized for small targets), both of which may cause a bit more damage due to the shapes of their bullets, as a bonus.

 

[smalls]

How many times this year are we going to beat this dead horse?

 

[TAKtical]

Lol smalls. I agree

 

[Certaindeaf]

Your combobulator has been weighed and found lacking.

 

[jimbo555]

Should be very effective against aggresive squirrels and bunnys!

 

[CMC]

Know a lot of people that carry 22 for defense.
They cannot handle the weight or recoil of other weapons.
BTW 22 lr kills the most people, accident and self defense lumped together.
I also know people that carry a 460 Rowland.
To each its own.
Shot placement is what counts unless you are using a shotgun, IMHO

 

[Robbins290]

I agree with smalls. I only carry a 22 in the woods for squrrials, nothing more. and I will never own a p22. that combo is asking for failure.


just my .02

 

[481]

Dear THR:
A question has arisen in my circle or friends with respect to the Walther P22. Most of the guys have had no issues in its reliability, however, it caliber is some what of a concern to some. They state that a .22 is nothing more then a fun range gun PERIOD. On the oher hand few have strongly contested otherwise and states that a good couple with .22 will stop the aggressor in its feet.

Because of low recoil and light weight Walther P22 was discussed without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Whats your input on the matter?

The P22 is fun to shoot- that's for sure.

For serious self-defense use, there are much, much better options in centerfire calibers ranging from 9mm to .45ACP.

 

[mf-dif]

Considering the jamtastic p22 actually sends the rounds down the pipe...shoot to the head, neck or heart. Use FMJ too for penetration...you'll need it. Also use a hyper velocity round, I suggest CCI Stingers. Don't expect them to drop dead either if you stop them. You better secure them, then call the police.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Yeah Ive seen coons take off after being hit by stingers out of an mkiii. Do some research. Many people have had similar problems with .22lr from pistols. The round does not reach max velocity out of a short barrel. Your backyard test with newspaper, cardboard and a book is ridiculous and proves nothing. Use wet newspaper stuffed into gallon jugs. Or try ballistic gel like plenty of others on youtube have. A .22lr can glance off a coons skull when shot from a pistol, where it might have penetrated if it was shot from a 10/22 with a 16-18 inch barrel. If you feel safe carrying a .22 for whatever reason, go for it. I dont because I have seen (although rarely) multiple cases of .22lr from a pistol not stopping small game.

What crappy excuse for .22 ammo are you using that it glances of a COON!
Or did you miss and call it a glance? my "test" proved to ME that the .22lr (Stinger in this case) would most likely having me in my place had I been shot with it. Your mileage obviously varies, but that's okay. Just be mindful of those coons, and you should fare well.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Can? Like once in ten, a million? "Good news" for some seems kind of an odd statement.

I suppose. Moving might über difficult, static prolly not. But, if it's a dead horse we are beating (or rather shooting in this case) then it should be an easy shot. Walnuts are large legumes.

It's nice that there's no middle ground on this thread: You'll either use .22 LR or ya won't. I would, but that's a cartridge argument. As for the platform, I personally would NOT use the P22.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've books to shoot.

 

[mooner]

I don't think that we should take this idea to such an absolute extreme.

Oh, for crying out loud - I was talking about that particular instance against racoons - the only first hand knowledge I have on 22lr stopping ability.

Context, man! Context! - go ahead and re-read it.