What's your recipe for 45 Long Colt Cowboy action reloads?

[Electrahog]

From Lyman 49
250 lead
Bullet 452644 Red dot Start 5.8gr 752 fps Max 6.5gr 836 fps
Bullet 454190 Red Dot Start 4.5gr 535 fps Max 6.5rg 835 fps

255 lead
Red Dot Start 4.5gr 550 fps Max 6.0gr 780 fps

200 lead
Red Dot Start 6.1gr 923 fps Max 6.9gr 975 fps
Listed pressure 10,400 - 11,800 CUP

Use the loads at your own risk.

I have never loaded Red Dot in .45 Colt but it looks like you could use a starting load for what you are after.

You listed 100PSI earlier, Did you mean 10,000?

Yes, I meant to say 10.000 sorry for the confusion.

You say:
Bullet 452644 Red dot Start 5.8gr 752 fps Max 6.5gr 836 fps
Bullet 454190 Red Dot Start 4.5gr 535 fps Max 6.5rg 835 fps

I understand the 452 and the 454 but what does the 644 and the190 mean ?

 

[RugerOldArmy]

You say:
Bullet 452644 Red dot Start 5.8gr 752 fps Max 6.5gr 836 fps
Bullet 454190 Red Dot Start 4.5gr 535 fps Max 6.5rg 835 fps

I understand the 452 and the 454 but what does the 644 and the190 mean ?

He is referring to the Lyman cast bullet mold numbers. Indicating the bullet.

 

[Electrahog]

He is referring to the Lyman cast bullet mold numbers. Indicating the bullet.

Oh I see well now it makes sense and if I wasn't so new to this I guess I would have caught that. lol

As I said in another post I have access to Red Dot at my Gander Mountain Store so I had hoped to go with it rather then pay a hazmat fee ordering something else. I found this information but I am so new at this I am not sure what to do. http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=186043&stc=1&d=1373136691

Any advice to help me get a solid conclusion with this would be greatly appreciated this is for reloading my R&D Conversion Cylinder and It states anything up to 850 FPS and anything up to 1000 PSI will work however it does not mentioned no certain Bullet so I guess the recipe would decide that.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Any advice to help me get a solid conclusion with this would be greatly appreciated this is for reloading my R&D Conversion Cylinder and It states anything up to 850 FPS and anything up to 1000 PSI will work however it does not mentioned no certain Bullet so I guess the recipe would decide that.

Perhaps someone will back me up here. This is my opinion. Don't be offended, it is well intended, and you're asking questions, which is a great thing.

Get the right powder. Use a lead bullet.

Red Dot is a fast powder, and not one I'd consider particularly forgiving. You'll put a small amount in that large 45 Colt case. You can make it work, but you'll likely have to take your finger off the trigger, and point the barrel to the sky, to get the powder by the primer, then aim, between each shot, to get consistent ignition and accuracy. (OK, I'm a pessimist.)

I'd hold off until you get trail boss, unique, AA#5, or HS6 to be SURE you don't have a double charge (they'll take more space in that big case), as a new reloader, and stay well within a cowboy action load for the R&D conversion.

Use a lead bullet, for a lighter load will get it moving down the barrel, and keep pressure down.

Don't be in a hurry to create a load with the only powder you can find. Shoot something else until you can find the right components.

You want to be safe, and have a decent load, that shoots well, and bank some success as a handloader.

Ideally, I'd hold off, until you get:

250 Gr / 255 Gr RNFP lead bullets

And use :

8.0 gr or just under of Unique or
10.5 gr or just under of AA#5

Those are the most 'classic' loads you'll likely find for 45 Colt Cowboy loads.

 

[Electrahog]

Perhaps someone will back me up here. This is my opinion. Don't be offended, it is well intended, and you're asking questions, which is a great thing.

Get the right powder. Use a lead bullet.

Red Dot is a fast powder, and not one I'd consider particularly forgiving. You'll put a small amount in that large 45 Colt case. You can make it work, but you'll likely have to take your finger off the trigger, and point the barrel to the sky, to get the powder by the primer, then aim, between each shot, to get consistent ignition and accuracy. (OK, I'm a pessimist.)

I'd hold off until you get trail boss, unique, AA#5, or HS6 to be SURE you don't have a double charge (they'll take more space in that big case), as a new reloader, and stay well within a cowboy action load for the R&D conversion.

Use a lead bullet, for a lighter load will get it moving down the barrel, and keep pressure down.

Don't be in a hurry to create a load with the only powder you can find. Shoot something else until you can find the right components.

You want to be safe, and have a decent load, that shoots well, and bank some success as a handloader.

Ideally, I'd hold off, until you get:

250 Gr / 255 Gr RNFP lead bullets

And use :

8.0 gr or just under of Unique or
10.5 gr or just under of AA#5

Those are the most 'classic' loads you'll likely find for 45 Colt Cowboy loads.

Thank you for the good advice, I agree since I am new to this I feel caution and safety is paramount. I'll wait a while longer maybe some Trail boss will be back in stock soon or Unique and just pay the hazmat fee, it would be better safe then sorry. Thanks

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Electrahog,
Take a look at that information again because a smokeless load that generates only 1,000 PSI might not even get the bullet out of the barrel. There is a mistake somewhere and the information most probably is supposed to be "don't exceed 850 fps or 10,000 PSI." No safe 45 Colt smokeless load will produce only 1,000 PSI. Please listen, that is a mistake, no load data source will supply data for the 45 Colt that generates only 1,000 PSI!

 

[Electrahog]

Electrahog,
Take a look at that information again because a smokeless load that generates only 1,000 PSI might not even get the bullet out of the barrel. There is a mistake somewhere and the information most probably is supposed to be "don't exceed 850 fps or 10,000 PSI." No safe 45 Colt smokeless load will produce only 1,000 PSI. Please listen, that is a mistake, no load data source will supply data for the 45 Colt that generates only 1,000 PSI!

Yes that's a mistake it should say10.000 psi if not 12.000 psi but not any greater the one of the two mentioned here. I kind of thought that looked a bit weak even to me.

 

[RugerBob]

I use WW cast lead in 6 cav mold. 200gr FTRN over 6.8 Unique. Has some nice Kick but not bad.
But I just do it for fun.
Thats in 5 1/2" Vaqueros and 20" Rossi.

 

[Dudedog]

I was not reccomending Red Dot, just was trying to be helpful with a listed load and showing 10000+ CUP not 1000 PSI.
IE 1000 PSI was not a reasonable number.

Defering to people with experience with 45 Colt.
Sorry if I stepped on any toes.

 

[Electrahog]

It's not worth the aggravation.

 

[Red Cent]

5 grs of Red Dot under a 165 gr 45 Colt rnfp is a great cowboy round. 'Course, you need some thick skin for the grief you get from the peanut gallery. American Select is almost the same as Red Dot. Same bullet weight/caliber, you lose 20-30 fps with AS.

I use a 200 gr rnfp bullet with 5 gr American Select in the 1911 to get 160 power factor.

All you gotta do is ring steel.

 

[Electrahog]

It's not worth the aggravation.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The Unique powder I am able to get at the moment is ether:
Power Pro 1200-R
Power Pro 4000 MR

Would ether one of these work, with the recipe you mentioned ?

Those 2 Power Pro powders you listed are both rifle powders and not at all suitable for handgun loads. The 1200-R is better suited for the .223 Rem and the 4000-MR is for loading Magnum rifle cartridges and for sure not good for handguns.

Unique is the name of a pistol powder now sold by Alliant and before that by Hercules and DuPont. Unique is over 100 years old.
http://alliantpowder.com/products/powder/unique_handgun.aspx

 

[Electrahog]

It's not worth the aggravation.

 

[Uniquedot]

Next, those 2 bullets are from 2 different Lyman molds. Both are 250gr bullet and one is slightly longer than the other but with a similar profile. There is no data that is running together, both bullets are very similar, weigh the same, use about the same case space so the velocities will also be the same when charged with the same powder charge.

There is absolutely nothing at all similar in profile about these bullets. Lymans incorrect drawings make them look similar, but they are not even close. The 454190 drawing doesn't even remotely resemble the bullets from that mould. BTW Electrahog, the 454190 is the closest thing available to the original 45 colt bullets, but they must be crimped on the ogive and it has an extremely small meplat just like the original bullet. My favorite load for the conversions with a 250 grain bullet was 7.5 grains of unique. The twist in your pistol was designed for round balls and your gun will show better accuracy with shorter lighter bullets. Lee has two great molds one in 160 grn rnfn and another in 200 grn rnfp and the lee bullets have a large meplat. They can be purchased from casters on various forums if you don't want to cast them yourself.

Don't be afraid of red dot as it makes an excellent low pressure and accurate loads, but you do have to be careful and not overcharge, but this same caution must be used with any powder you elect to load. I've used more powders in 45 colt than I can even remember and nothing beats unique which by the way is unique and there are no other powders sharing the name. Trail boss is a decent powder and very forgiving, but it isn't unique! the only thing better than unique in the 45 colt standard (and low pressure) loads is genuine gunpowder (goex or swiss). BTW the uberti does best with .452-.454 diameter bullets while the piettas work better with .451-.452 these weapons have a smaller groove than modern weapons. Thats why your .454 balls end up .452 after you swage them into the BP cylinder. I used to own several of these conversions and while the ubertis were more refined the piettas always produced better accuracy. and when I say I owned several I had 36 of them! I didn't have conversions for all of them, but I swapped them around a lot! they are particularly fun guns.

 

[Artofgolf]

....... I am beginning to think I wasted my money on all of this reloading equipment but the box of ammo is crazy high to just keep having to buy and I would like to learn reloading.

I was just @ Bass Pro yesterday; they have Unique. They also had it on their website the last time I looked. BP also offers a ship-to-store option that eliminates HAZ-MAT costs if you're willing to drive over to pick-up the powder
I picked up #4 each of Unique & Red-Dot on Saturday.

Hang in there - a little patience with the current state-of-affairs is necessary

 

[Electrahog]

It's not worth the aggravation.

 

[Electrahog]

It's not worth the aggravation.

 

[Uniquedot]

Electrahog, you are misunderstanding the ad for the powder. You are searching for unique and it's showing you a photo of unique, but they have no unique in stock so it's showing you the only two ALLIANT powders which they have in stock. If unique or any other alliant powder were in stock you would be able to choose it from the drop down box.

 

[Uniquedot]

BTW I bass pro is sold out of unique online...I was lucky enough to get some before it was gone!

 

[Electrahog]

It's not worth the aggravation.

 

[USSR]

I kind of thought that was what the deal was but since I wasn't sure about the powder brands I was confused

Please buy a reloading manual and read it through several times. You are scaring some of us.

Don

 

[ljnowell]

I kind of thought that was what the deal was but since I wasn't sure about the powder brands I was confused Thanks for going and looking, so there is just one Unique and that's it, good that cleared that up and now I have learned something. Well even though Red Dot may not be the best in the west to use it's all I can get at present. Can a filler be used in the shell along with the powder to take up space since it's such a large cartridge ? Or is that just a black powder thing.

No filler is needed.

 

[Uniquedot]

No! Do not use a filler with red dot! Still don't shy away from the powder. It can be used to produce very accurate loads in the 45 colt.

 

[Electrahog]

It's not worth the aggravation.