When did we LOSE the right to CCW? Before we (some) got it back with permits?

[Green Lantern]

As in - lately, getting states to a "shall issue" CCW status is everyone's goal...

But how long has it been illegal to carry a gun WITHOUT a "concealed weapons permit?"

(I assume naturally that answers will vary based on location...)

Or for that matter, when laws changed to dissuade/forbid OPEN-carrying of guns? It's a safe bet that it took more than just the act of toting a sixgun in the Old West to get the Sheriff after you for "going armed to the terror of the public!"

 

[Bighouse Doc]

I believe Louisiana was the first to pass such a law.

It was designed to disarm abolitionists from pro-slave holder mobs.

Many abolitionists carried concealed since they were often religious and didn't want to appear menacing.

The La court upheld it saying concelaed carry was "..an affront to manly combat."

In the post war south, many further carry bans were part of Jim Crow. Designed to be enforced only against blacks.

 

[Autolycus]

I read that it was Washington state in 1936 that was the first shall issue system.

Either way, it is a good question? I have read on another forum that it was legal to carry a firearm on an airplane up until the 60s.

I believe that in California it was legal to open carry but Ronald Reagan, when he was governor, made it a crime.

 

[ArmedBear]

I believe that in California it was legal to open carry but Ronald Reagan, when he was governor, made it a crime.

He signed the law, but the legislature put it on his desk enthusiastically.

It was a direct and specific response to African Americans carrying openly.

 

[goalie]

In Minnesota, it was the mid 1970's. I think 1974, but am unsure, and too lazy to double-check.

 

[JohnBT]

Not handguns specifically, since there weren't all that many handguns in the early days of our country, but an interesting read nonetheless.

www.lizmichael.com/racistro.htm

It includes numerous tidbits such as:

"While settled parts of the South were in great fear of armed blacks, on the frontier, the concerns about Indian attack often forced relaxation of these rules. The 1798 Kentucky Comprehensive Act allowed slaves and free blacks on frontier plantations "to keep and use guns, powder, shot, and weapons, offensive and defensive." Unlike whites, however, a license was required for free blacks or slaves to carry weapons.[25]"

and...

"In 1920, the Ohio Supreme Court upheld the conviction of a Mexican for concealed carry of a handgun--while asleep in his own bed."

 

[JohnBT]

And www.blackmanwithagun.com/site/dbpage.asp?page_id=140000780&sec_id=140000845

One example from the timeline:

"1828 Florida Free blacks permitted to carry guns if court approval. Act of Nov. 17, 1828 Sec. 9, 1828 Fla. Laws 174, 177; Act of Jan. 12, 1828, Sec. 9, 1827 Fla. Laws 97, 100 - Florida went back and forth on the question of licenses for free blacks; twice in 1828, Florida enacted provisions providing for free blacks to carry and use firearms upon obtaining a license from a justice of the peace."

 

[shield20]

All states in the fore-front of laws regulating the concealed carrying of deadly weapons were slave states. 7 of the 15 slave states (Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Virginia adopted statutes that regulated concealed carrying of arms before the Mexican war (1846). Indiana ("free state") adopted its 1st concealed weapon law in 1820.

"Concealed Weapon Laws of the Early Republic"

 

[Sistema1927]

Most of the anti-carry laws were passed in order to keep "those uppity [blacks]" from carrying after the Civil War. They were 100% racist in nature, and were only enforced against blacks. The "good old boys" didn't have to worry about them, "wink, wink".

 

[DJAteOhAte]

Feel free to enjoy these articles from GCO about that very subject:

Disarm the Negros - the Racist Roots of Georgia Gun Laws

History of Georgia Carry Laws

The Public Gathering Prohibition – The Bloody Legacy of the Camilla Massacre

Ever Wonder Why Probate Judges Issue Firearms Licenses?

The Racist Roots of Gun Control

 

[Prince Yamato]

It was a direct and specific response to African Americans carrying openly.

Specifically though, it was in response to the Panthers carrying AWs openly in public (exploiting a loophole in CA law that allowed the open carry of rifles). It was after the Panthers stormed the legislature, riflesin hand (during which one of their own was to speak) that the CA gov't got a little nervous. Granted, the Panthers weren't doing anything illegal. They were merely exercising both their first and second amendment rights simultaneously.

 

[Nickotym]

Panthers carrying AWs openly in public

My friend, back then they were not wrongly called "AW"s, please don't let the antis misnomers become part of your vocabulary.

 

[KBintheSLC]

In UT, we never lost the right to open carry, but the concealed carry rights were banned in the 60's (I think) according to state law. Until the revival of "shall issue".

 

[Prince Yamato]

My friend, back then they were not wrongly called "AW"s, please don't let the antis misnomers become part of your vocabulary.

Yeah, but today we call them assault weapons and that's what the Panthers carried.

 

[joffe]

Yeah, but today we call them assault weapons and that's what the Panthers carried.

No, the antis refer to evil-looking military guns with that term - rational people simply call them 'rifles'.

 

[nwilliams]

delete

 

[Autolycus]

We need more groups like the Black Panthers. We should start openly carrying Assault Weapons and protesting the government.

 

[Green Lantern]

No, the antis refer to evil-looking military guns with that term - rational people simply call them 'rifles'.

+1. I bet the antis love it when we use the term (individually or as a marketing tactic... )

I hereby give anyone on THR permission to smack me on the back of the head if they catch me using anti buzzwords in the wrong context, like "assault weapon" and "high capacity."

Thanks for the info - makes sense that a lot of the anti-carry laws had racist roots to them. Meshes with another discussion I'm having about NC's laws. We're a 'shall-issue' CCW state, but a MAY-issue state as far as a handgun PURCHASE permit goes...! :upeyes:

Like I mentioned in there, since the CCW negates the need for a purchase permit, the solution is to get your CCW permit and be done with it!

 

[Jaenak]

We started loosing ground on the CCW front when people started realizing that to "keep and bear arms" didn't nesessarily mean that you carried them with you, you just had the right to own and use them.

 

[Well Regulated]

All states in the fore-front of laws regulating the concealed carrying of deadly weapons were slave states. 7 of the 15 slave states (Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Virginia adopted statutes that regulated concealed carrying of arms before the Mexican war (1846). Indiana ("free state") adopted its 1st concealed weapon law in 1820.

That's interesting because New York was a slave state.

 

[Bighouse Doc]

New York is important because it was the first state to ban guns for non-black citizens.

The dominant Irish gangsters that ran the city, wanted to disarm their victims( the Itaians, Jews and others) while allowing the friendly thugs (the Irish) to be armed.

The law still wears the name of the Gangster "Big Timmy Sullivan."

 

[JohnKSa]

I poked around awhile back. I didn't keep the results but as I recall in TX, it happened in the late 1860s or early 1870s.

Ok, poked around again and refreshed my memory. What you find is case law going back to the early 1870s (as early as 1872) but I can't find cites for earlier precedents. That's not conclusive evidence that the laws didn't exist before then, but it's pretty clear that prosecutions for carrying handguns seem to have begun around that point.

 

[Trebor]

In Michigan it was in 1927. The law was designed to keep blacks from carrying guns. Google "Ossien Sweet" sometime.