When do we use the 2nd Amendment

[rm23]

When do we use the 2nd Amendment? Do we wait until we are told to turn in our guns? Do we wait until someone tries to rewrite the Constitution? Or when we are forced to buy health care?

When does government become tyranny? I'm not saying anything about today's progressive socialist type that controls the federal government and I'm not trying to be political with this. I just want to know what people think.

 

[PA Curmudgeon]

When you get angry enough, grab your rifle and run outside. If you're the only one there, it's not time yet.

ETA: I "use" the 2nd amendment every day when I open carry for protection.

 

[The_Pretender]

The second amendment doesn't give the right to bear arms. It recognizes that we have this right and that it shall never be taken away.

The beauty of it is, you don't need it until they try to take it away.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I like PA Crumugeon's answer.

 

[jakemccoy]

We have had, and constantly have, plenty of opportunities to utilize the full extent of the Second Amendment. Some people exercise the Second Amendment as they see fit, even when their actions may violate a local law. Some of these people get into legal trouble for doing so.

On the other hand, many other people sit around and analyze these Second Amendment cases to the point that they feel comfortable with their inaction. These people usually don't support the NRA or any other pro-gun organization, don't write letters to lawmakers, and do criticizing people who open carry, etc. It's these freeloaders who need to start carrying their own weight, or at the very least get the heck out of the way.

 

[Deus Machina]

When you get angry enough, grab your rifle and run outside. If you're the only one there, it's not time yet.

The beauty of it is, you don't need it until they try to take it away.

That's about right. When they start taking what we have now, it may be time to make a point.

PA Curmudgeon, I love that one. Mind if I sig it?

 

[PA Curmudgeon]

Deus Machina, be my guest. I'd love to take credit for it but the truth is I've seen it in other forums myself. I have no idea who first said it, but it generates a lot of comments, always in agreement!

 

[RebelRabbi]

The Second Ammendment protects the first, as long as you are free to complain, gather in groups to complain and pray however you wish about it, you don't need the 2A, YET.

 

[bdickens]

I use it every day.

 

[Deus Machina]

Well, if anyone asks, I'll tell them where I heard it. I'd attribute it to you if you were the first.

Personally, I thankfully think that 'the time' is still a little ways off. If things keep picking up as a lot of states are doing, it may never--at least not over this issue. If it goes like a lot of politicians want, it will still be a few decades at the least.

People will take a lot before 'militia nutjobs' or 'insurgents' turn into 'a revolution'.

 

[Bliggida]

Having a retention holstered gun doesn't mean I use the gun everyday.
Likewise, having the retained right of the 2nd amendment doesn't mean I use it everyday.

That said, I feel its important to stress the idea that we have the optioned right to the 2nd amendment, and the actual use of it would be a catastrophic failure on many levels.

I also have the right against unreasonable search and seizures. That doesn't mean that, everyday I find the first LEO I see and taunt him to inaction. As that would be unwise.
Similarly, I have the right to free speech but that doesn't mean I stand outside the state/federal building yelling something risque whilst banging a pot and ladle.

Point being, the right to do something, versus the exercised right to do something. One is invaluably more important than the other.
The simple right will go infringed. When it all changes for the bad, the exercised right will subsequently be illegal, and it won't really matter then anyway.

 

[LemmyCaution]

If you keep and/or bear arms on your person or in your home, you are exercising the 2a. There seems to be some confusion about what the 2a entitles one to do. Nowhere in the 2a is granted the right to overthrow a duly elected government, no matter how loudly Newscorp crows about its alleged 'socialism.' It is not the right of an angry, barely literate rabble to run amok over the unexamined hearsay spoonfed them by a group of billionaires who have a vested interest in making sure no one can work toward the common good (disclaimer: nowhere should the above be taken to imply that I believe that the Current Occupant is working for the common good. Rather, he's wholly owned by those same billionaires).

 

[shockwave]

I got together with my neighbor yesterday. We discussed who is armed on the block (that we know of), and where dangers are most likely to occur.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[Prion]

Right on Lemmy!!!

 

[CoRoMo]

I own and carry everyday.

When does government become tyranny?

Good question, but I'm forbidden from answering it.

I just want to know what people think.

That's also something that this forum dissuades me from doing.

 

[huntsman]

When do we use the 2nd Amendment? Do we wait until we are told to turn in our guns? Do we wait until someone tries to rewrite the Constitution? Or when we are forced to buy health care?

When does government become tyranny? I'm not saying anything about today's progressive socialist type that controls the federal government and I'm not trying to be political with this. I just want to know what people think.

"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, & as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, 30 January 1787[1]

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/A_little_rebellion...(Quotation)

seems to me Jefferson understood how to "use" the 2nd amendment.

 

[wishin]

I own and carry everyday.
.

^^
My sentiments exactly, I keep and bear!

 

[Arkansas Paul]

RebelRabbi, that's good stuff.

 

[danprkr]

huntsman, thanks for saving the trouble of looking up that TJ quote.

LemmyCaution - see huntsman's post for arguably the most influential Founding Father's views on the subject.

 

[shenandoah]

Good advice, PA Curmudgeon .....

 

[LemmyCaution]

LemmyCaution - see huntsman's post for arguably the most influential Founding Father's views on the subject.

I'm well aware of Jefferson's views, and largely agree with them. That is a far cry from agreeing that Jefferson's personal views are in any way enshrined in the Constitution. That we are a nation of laws, not men sort of trump Jefferson's views on rebellion, as far as I am concerned.

The crux of it comes when the government does not obey the laws and/or Constitution. I'd argue that the previous administration was just as bad as the current, in that regard, but more importantly that most of the people who rail against the current administration would replace it with something equally, if not more vile, as far as the rule of law is concerned. That is why I tread carefully around discussions of rebellion. Rebellion is a destructive act. One had better have a pretty good idea of what will replace what has been destroyed before acting. I'm not confident in the Tea Party Movement's skills, in that regard.

That we, as a populace, have given our tacit agreement that the amendments 4th, 5th, 8th, 14th &etc. ad nauseam are quaint and anachronistic in light of the War on Terror gives me little hope that the rest of the Bill of Rights will last very long, either. And I lay the blame not on the overreaching of the government, but on our own complacency.

As Justin is fond of pointing out, we get the government we deserve, and we need to get it good and hard.

 

[huntsman]

The crux of it comes when the government does not obey the laws and/or Constitution. I'd argue that the previous administration was just as bad as the current

As far as I'm concerned the changes needed to be made in 1968 or at least 72 when Nixon took us off the gold standard but we didn't, and now look what this nation has experienced.

As Justin is fond of pointing out, we get the government we deserve, and we need to get it good and hard.

I too am a firm believer in this and I also believe the system we have is the best, but at some point we have to acknowledge that the system is corrupted by the people in power and by those who choose to keep them in power because of promises of gain.

The way for this system of government to flourish is it needs moral people as representatives and citizens.

I believe Jefferson understood human nature that's why he made his comments, to overthrow the people not the system.

 

[Justin]

How about this:

After you've exhausted your ability to protest publicly, speak out at open political events, call, write, fax, and email your reps, bring lawsuits, donate to organizations that fight to uphold the bill of rights, volunteer with a campaign, or run for office yourownself, that's the time to go use the 2nd Amendment.

"Oh, but that's so hard. I don't want to have to waste my time on a stupid phone call or writing a letter to the editor or using things like logic and reason to persuade people to my beliefs!"

Yeah, well, it's a lot easier than living out your Red Dawn/SHTF/Rambo fantasy...

 

[hso]

When there's no other political recourse.

Until then put the same effort into stopping the need for revolution that you'd put into winning one.

 

[Justin]

But, hso, that's no fun! Why, when I'm prepping for the revolution, it means I can go out in the woods and wear camouflage and run around with my Mosin Nagant and pretend to be a hero!