When does awareness become prejudice?

[Gungnir]

Then he pulls off the hood to reveal horns, demonic features tattooed, and smiles with a mouth full of sharp filed down teeth. It's a mental image that I'm sure would cause most of us to fear that we were in some kind of danger.

My response "sweet work dude!" I've known people exactly like that any in general they're perfectly normal.

Of course I've got in excess of $5,000 of body art myself, so perhaps my perception on these things is a little skewed.

Personally I'm more terrified of the guy in the bow-tie, sweater, with a pocket protector. They creep me out.

 

[rogerjames]

personally i'm more terrified of the guy in the bow-tie, sweater, with a pocket protector. They creep me out.

:d lmao.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Pocket protectors and slide rule holsters are great for holding straight razors. I don't know what a bow tie would be good for.

 

[Gungnir]

My wife rold me she thinks that the bow tie would make a great Garotte or Garotte cover.

She's a little disturbing too at times

 

[dacavasi]

Not prejudice!

Like I always say, I'm not prejudice, I just hate everybody!!!

 

[Norinco982lover]

It's not stereotyping. It's merely being observant. As a student...I see people with all different racial and ethnic backgrounds. Most of them are clean cut and dress nicely. I can easily tell the difference between a student and a street lurker no matter the color of their skin.

If I am walking on the street and someone is approaching my bubble I do not care what their race is. I care how they are dressed, what kind of attitude they are projecting, what their hands are doing, and where their eyes are.

~Norinco

 

[1911 guy]

What I watch, and this is a generalization of my observations.
Direction of movement
hands
eyes
carriage
motions
dress
general description
accurate description

If I've gotten beyond the first three observations of someone just walking down the street, I'm suspicious.

Quote:
i consider making any kinda prejudgement based on race to be racist

Bingo. If you base your likes and dislikes solely on race, you'll miss out on getting to know some truly interesting and wonderful people who just don't happen to look quite like you. Sure there are some strinkers out there, there's bad apples in every barrel. Met a guy two weeks ago named Harrison Banda. We hit it off like we were long lost brothers. He's Zambian, speaks somewhat "interesting" english and is very black. He's also a heck of a guy with a wonderful family and three week old baby. I initially felt comfortable around him because he has an outgoing personality, is well kept and clean, basically the opposite of what most of us would consider suspicious.

 

[Diamondback6]

A blond haired, blue eyed female who acts suspiciously is going to get the same level of awareness and readiness as a young black male with the gangsta pants.

Even more, actually, in my case--since she's bringing a built-in diversion from "optimal awareness". I actually once gave a boothbabe at a convention a laugh with a comment about "from my position, you're the most dangerous person in this room--your 'strategic assets' and the space between 'em (she was rather well-endowed and dressed to show it in a naughty-librarian style) are a better distraction-device than any flashbang..."

The game is properly called "statistical profiling", using "patterns of behavior"--and I just gave you some key buzzwords to accompany "rebuttable presumption" which either of those conditions can trigger.

 

[drjoker]

The very fact that you asked if you were a racist implies that you are NOT a racist. I mean, do you think a KKK member is going to ask himself if he is a racist? As a minority myself, I'm letting you know that living in condition yellow is definitely NOT racist.

In my experience, though, the guys you have to worry about are not necessarily black, hispanic, or tattooed. It's the guys with dirty fingernails and B.O. that you have to worry about. Bad hygeine is a sign of drug abuse. Druggies lose interest in food, hygeine, and everything else in life except for drugs.

I also live in condition yellow. I hate drive throughs. You could get boxed in by cars in front and behind. You are a sitting duck for a robbery in a drive through fast food joint.

Stay safe.

P.S. Oh, and let's not be sexist, either. Half the GSW killers that roll through my hospital are WOMEN. One of my nurses killed her husband in an argument over a barbecue grill.

 

[corespray]

Cautious people profile based on generalized behaviors of groups and location. I would like to think that I am not biased against any specific group of people, but I know which groups are responsible for the lion's share of crime; I am more cautious around those people. I would prefer to be labled a racisist than be listed in the obituaries.

 

[SIRVEYR666]

So am I just playing the odds and being aware of my surroundings, or am I a redneck racist?

Profiling works. Don't buy into the White guilt bull$hit.

 

[gossamer]

Watch Cop's. Do you see many people in Brooks Brothers suits getting arrested?

So I'm supposed to get my statistics for who who is likely to commit a crime in a rural town in Missouri from a TV show that is marketing itself nationwide?

What kind of tactical advantage do I gain by looking mostly for blacks to commit crimes in a 90%-white rural town? I should ignore the meth addicted white trash because Cops shows them mostly arresting black people in urban areas?

Sounds like I just lost any tactical advantage or awareness.

When we're not on the internet we'll find that awareness is about context as much as - if not more than - subjects.

BTW, I've had white guys in Brooks Brothers suits stealing from me for years. Ask my former financial advisor.

 

[gossamer]

When is the last time you heard about a middle aged, slightly overweight balding white guy in a suit sticking up a 7-11?

Not very often, but I've heard of them kidnapping, raping and killing people too often to count.

Around here we had a guy by the name of Bob Berdella. He may not have held up a 7-11, but he did MUCH worse.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Anyone else remember the 1991 Michael Douglas movie, "Falling Down"? Dorky white guy in a white short-sleeve button down shirt, wearing glasses and carrying a briefcase, goes on a rampage. How the police and criminals and others deal with him, and how that goes for them, is actually very interesting from the perspective of this thread. How realistic do others feel that part of that movie was?

 

[gossamer]

I look at it this way. I think of the worst crimes perpetrated on American society. The one's that took the most lives by the acts of single individuals or VERY small groups.

Who committed them?

9/11 - terrorists, middle-eastern, Saudi's.
Oklahoma City - one or two white guys, pretty "normal" looking
Jeffery Dahmer, BTK, Bob Berdella, Berkowitz, Bundy, etc. etc.
We had a serial killer here in KC who was a black man, he killed a number of prostitutes. He was over 30, when they apprehended him he wore normal fitting jeans, a normal t-shirt, and was reported by a girlfriend.

There are billboard ringing my city depicting black males who are wanted in the killing of innocent people.

I've had clients who were or are selling drugs, wear baggy clothes, lots of jewelry and record "gangsta rap." They would also stand right along side me to defend my home from anyone who tried to break in to it.

I've had clients and have friends with face tattoos, body modification, etc.. They come from devout Christian homes in rural Kansas.

The only violence perpetrated against me in my life was from a group of drunk, white college fraternity members.

The only time I've had a gun pulled on me was by a white guy in a bar who decided everyone there was trying to shag his woman.

The worst I've ever seen someone get beaten was when a drunk white guy was beaten to the point of unconsciousness and deafness in one ear outside a bar by another white guy - a known hot head - while the white bouncers watched and did nothing. (the guy who did the beating was prosecuted and sentenced to jail).

The only person I know who's actually been shot (besides LEOs) was a hispanic kid I went to college with. He was shot in the leg while we were in college while he was back home. He carried a 3.5 GPA.

The only incident of escalated (where actions took place) road rage I've ever personally encountered was from a group of white high-school kids who were driving and started throwing batteries at my car. I led then directly to the Highway Patrol headquarters, got out of my car and asked them to come inside with me. They left.

The only time I've ever been shot at was by a couple of 11-year-olds in my neighborhood who shot at me with an bb-pistol while I was driving.

The only common denominator here is that there is no common denominator here along racial or ethnic lines. The victims are all as diverse as the perpetrators. For every bit of statistical evidence of common types of criminals there are exceptions. In the world of statistics they call them outliers. And if you aren't ETERNALLY vigilant, it will be the OUTLIER that can ruin your life. 99 times out of 100 I walk down my staircase with no incident, it's that 100th time that I fall that can kill me.

It's not white mans guilt that should be telling you not to trust the white guy in the suite, it's your objective admission that ANYone can be a threat because EVERYone has been a threat.


The only significant and reliable variable among criminals is that they behave like criminals. A life of experiences has taught me it's not about how people look, it's about what they do. If you spend all your time thinking someone might be a bad guy because of how they look, the one's who look normal will be the outliers who cash in your chips.

 

[MisterMike]

I live in the suburbs a metro area of about 6 million and work in the city, so if I were to start focusing on blacks, hispanics, guys with tattoos, etc., I'd be exhausted all the time.

I try to stay on my toes, but these types of "obvious" cues aren't of much help in most situations. Having said that, when I'm in my almost all white neighborhood, I have to admit that my ears perk up a bit when I see someone who, by virtue of their appearance, looks to be an "outsider." Still, that's not of much use to me. Around here you run into humans of every imaginable description.

It may not be scientific, but I'll admit that I go mostly on my gut feelings. If something doesn't feel right, I try to make a dignified exit from the area. There are a couple of things that always set off my alarms, though:

First, drunks and their friends; I've seen enough situations where booze (or drugs) has caused people to do things that endanger themselves or others to know that the danger level increases substantially when people are intoxicated. Aggression without apparent provocation happens all the time. Drunks who are on their own, wandering through the neighborhood, cause me the most concern.

Second, groups of young-ish males hanging out, trying too hard to look casual.

Third, anyone wearing gang-related apparel.

I don't get too weirded out by people who look bizarre. Others may disagree, but nose rings, piercings, and vast landscapes of tattoos don't bother me. I usually engage them with a "Hey, how's it going," or some other small talk and almost without exception get a positive response. Maybe it's because I'm such a square-looking guy (50-something with short graying hair) and they're not expecting it.

So, what I'd urge--apart from steering clear from badasses, like those who identify themselves with gang apparel--is to trust your gut. If you've got a bad feeling, it's worth heeding. Your brain, operating on a subconscious level, is capable of accurately processing much more information than your conscious brain, trying to figure out if A+B+G=danger. So, listen to your hunches.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

It may not be scientific, but I'll admit that I go mostly on my gut feelings
that has kept me breathing so far in spite of some remarkably stupid decisions and behavior

 

[Gungnir]

Duke of Doubt:

Anyone else remember the 1991 Michael Douglas movie, "Falling Down"? Dorky white guy in a white short-sleeve button down shirt, wearing glasses and carrying a briefcase, goes on a rampage. How the police and criminals and others deal with him, and how that goes for them, is actually very interesting from the perspective of this thread. How realistic do others feel that part of that movie was?

IIRC Didn't he have a pocket protector???

 

[mr.trooper]

I don't hate anyone. Not based on skin color or anything else.

But I am not ethnicaly sensitive, nor politicaly correct.

There is big difference between HATING someone and not liking / not aproving of someone. Stero types exist for a reason; they are not ALL INCLUSIVE becuase exceptions are always present and nobody lives up to the stero type 100% of the time, but there are plenty of people who pull it off a majority of the time.

The human brain needs stero types and profiling. On the most basic phycological level, it streamlines our interactions and allows us to react without thinking about every little inane thing we come across (we need to think about some things yes, but you cant accomplish anything if you have to PONDER every facet of your daily interactions) It helps keep us sane.

Why do YOU care anyway?

 

[Erik]

"When does awareness become prejudice?"

When you incorrectly equate being aware of a specific threat with being in proximity an individual of another race.

 

[rainbowbob]

"When does awareness become prejudice?"

When you incorrectly equate being aware of a specific threat with being in proximity an individual of another race.

DING! Give the man a cigar!



Although more acurately, that is when awareness becomes racism. You can be prejudiced against all sorts of people, even of your own race. That's different. Sort of.

 

[Aquila]

I watch ANYONE with baggy pants and a swagger no matter their race. Add tatoos, heavy chains and whatnot and I don't have much time for them. Prejudiced? Uhm, no. Just observant. Black males, White males, Hispanic males, Asian males all commit crime. Usually in depressed areas. If the individuals are dressed in clothing that fit and aren't trying to portray "intimidation" I'm naturally less concerned but that does not mean one cannot have trouble from them.

When away from my home I "live like a cat"; aware of everything and get where I need to be in the most efficient manner.

Trouble comes in many forms and it may be in a form you may not expect it.

 

[B yond]

You know what's racist? People concerned about racism!

There used to be this one master race...THE HUMAN RACE.

The whole idea that people who are different colors are different races is wrong. People are people. Some of the most racist things I've ever heard came from the mouths of people who claim to be victims of racism.

I don't care what color you are, if you look like you could hurt me, I'm going to be more alert when I'm around you.

Yes, I'm a redneck. We're becoming a minority. If you say anything bad about us, then you're a racist.

(Try figuring out which parts of that post were sarcastic!)

 

[B yond]

I just have to add-

People with their pants around their knees are only a threat if they have a gun or you can't run. As soon as they try to chase you those pants are around their ankles and that really slows them down.

 

[RedneckCopsWife]

Just the other night in class I was told by a classmate that I was "prejudiced" because I keep a loaded gun in case of a home invasion. I'm still trying to figure that one out. She goes on to say to me "where do you live that you have to have a loaded gun. I would never have one." Mind you she works at ONE of the prisons here. Before I could say anything another classmate spoke up and said "Leavenworth, same as mose everyone here".

I'm sorry but I'm NOT going to be a victim. We have taught our kids how to handle a gun and what to do and what not to do. We had someone "show up" one day. My husband and I were gone but our youngest was here (at the time he was 17). The dogs alerted him and when he went to check it out someone was trying to get in. My son met him with G27 and needless to say the man ran off. After telling that in class I looked at my classmate and asked "where does being prejudice come in to that equation?".