When is a barrel "shot out"?

[Axis II]

223rem, Savage heavy barrel shooting loads about 3100 fps. I generally let the barrel cool down between shots but sometimes messing around at the range or on a hot woodchuck field it gets warm to the touch but nothing so hot you cant hold it. I am probably approaching 800 rounds through it. When do 223rem bolt action barrels usually get "shot out"?

Note: Mine is not shot out I was just curious when its done for most people.

 

[Scooter22]

IDK the technical answer. I would think when the accuracy the owner wants is gone. Or the rifling is gone and bullets tumble.

 

[Seedy Character]

^^^^^^^

Say your preferred load has always shoot 1" groups. Now, that load is shooting 6". Barrel is clean, scope is tight, everything you can check and do is normal. Groups do not improved. Barrel MAY be shot out. At 300 rounds, at isn't, unless you have a turd for a barrel

My .223 bolt gun has over 4000 rounds. Shoots a good as first 5.

Barrels getting shot out are high volume to bore size cartridges. .220 Swift, .17 Rem, .257 Wthby, etc. Lots of powder, small hole, very fast bullet.

 

[Ifishsum]

Should be way more than 800 rounds for a .223...I consider a barrel shot out when I start getting flyers that I know for a fact are not my doing. Usually start noticing at the 600 yard line, 2500 to 3500 rounds depending on barrel quality but they often still shoot just fine at 100/200 for a couple thousand more. That's for an AR platform, which if anything would wear faster than a bolt I would think. Especially as rapid fire is half of our usually course of fire in HP

 

[2ndtimer]

Another way to tell is when your handloads that used to clock 3,000 FPS now trip the screens at 2550 FPS in a .243 Win. Groups opened up, too.

 

[dave951]

223rem, Savage heavy barrel shooting loads about 3100 fps. I generally let the barrel cool down between shots but sometimes messing around at the range or on a hot woodchuck field it gets warm to the touch but nothing so hot you cant hold it. I am probably approaching 800 rounds through it. When do 223rem bolt action barrels usually get "shot out"?

Note: Mine is not shot out I was just curious when its done for most people.

800 is a very low number even for cartridges that are notorious for killing barrels. You'll know when the accuracy starts to go away. You can always get a cheap endoscope and look at the rifling in the throat area. Throat erosion is usually the main culprit. One cause for accuracy going away early could also be damage to the crown.

 

[sarduy]

The average life of an AR15 barrel is anywhere from 20k to 30k depending on how hard the rifle was used. For a bolt action seeking precision you could cut that in half 10-15k and still have 2-3 MOA, just keep in mind that barrels and mags are expendable items and it will cost you almost $4,000 in ammo before you need to worry about a $250 barrel.

 

[Archie]

Everything so far is quite valid. But the determination varies by shooter.
I understand some bench rest guys will rebarrel every 'season'. At least they used to so do. Not sure is that was a majority, a plurality or just some.
I rather expect hunters in general will consider a barrel shot out when it groups larger than the game.
I once had a old rifle that would print bullet sideways at 25 yards. I thought that barrel was pretty used up.

 

[AK Hunter]

I have only shot out one .223 barrel so far. I knew it was getting bad so from the pattern opening up (years ago) I put a bump stock on it. It was during an exhibition shoot at our range. I loaded up about 4 30rd mags, & a 100 round drum with cheap steel cased BiMetal rounds. I had pumpkins sitting down range & by the time I was done the pumpkins were nothing but mush. The barrel got so hot about half way through the 100 rd drum it started flashing sparks from the muzzle brake. This is the kind of pattern it shoots now.
For comparison the top right dot was shot with a good barrel. the center & bottom right is shot with the bad barrel. Notice the keyholing.

 

[DM~]

I have a .243 Win. that I consider shot out, or at least close to being shot out. It just don't have the fantastic accuracy it once had, but it's still more than good enough to hunt with, so I don't worry about it one bit.

I have no idea how many rounds I've put through it, since I bought it in the "70's"...

DM

 

[243winxb]

Savage Axis 223, fired 2818 rounds so far. Accuracy seemed to drop off with pet load. Going to a bullet with more bearing surface helps alignment on old barrels. Shoot 69 & 68 gr, instead of 55grs. As gun came from factory. Early model with old style 6 lb trigger.
Only bought it to shoot up old M16A1 ammo.

Larger cartridges shoot out faster.

 

[Cemetery21]

Just my experience that velocity drops before accuracy is affected much. If you don't care about the velocity, then the barrel usually has quite a few rounds left before accuracy gets bad (whatever your definition of bad). I've set back/replaced 22-250 barrels at 1400 rounds due to velocity (prairie dog rifles) when they still shot 1/2" groups.
A buddy shot out a 223 stainless varmint. He didn't know the number of rounds, but north of 5,000. It had dropped from 3,300 to 3,100 fps long before it started shooting > 3/4" groups. It just suddenly started scattering rounds on a prairie dog trip. When he had it rebarreled, the gunsmith said it had 6" of fire cracking - no rifling from the throat out. That barrel had a lot of abuse. Shot very hot frequently. He takes better care of the new barrel.

 

[Kp321]

Many “shot out” barrels shoot like new again after thorough de-copper cleaning.

 

[.38 Special]

I agree with those who have found velocity a more reliable factor. On several occasions I have found that I would start needing to add elevation at longer ranges, and that soon afterward I would start getting inexplicable flyers. As @Kp321 points out, many "shot out" barrels just need a good cleaning, but if you notice velocity dropping off along with flyers, it may well be time for a new barrel.

 

[Varminterror]

Lots of speculation here, but a lot of misses around the target. But not many folks actually shoot enough to burn out many barrels.

Standards vary by application - a short range blasting barrel might make it 10,000 to even 20,000 rounds before it starts spraying rounds out at 2-4moa, while a Service Rifle competitor will typically swap a button rifled barrel around 3000 rounds and a cut rifled barrel around 4-5,000 rounds. A PRS competitor using 223/5.56 will be even shorter before replacing, as velocity stability in the higher round count competition without sighters is even more critical.

To the speculation of general barrel life, cartridge has extreme influence on barrel life. A 243win or 7RM used in long range shooting where velocity stability matters will typically smoke a barrel within 750-900 rounds, while more throat friendly cartridges like 6 BR can hang on to stable precision and velocity past 3000 with a smile. Barrel rifling method does matter as well - cut rifling typically out lives button rifling by a long margin.

 

[FL-NC]

The easy answer is when the results downrange degrade for no known reason. I have had a personal AR that went from "typical" groups to a catastrophic "buh-bye" in terms of accuracy during one session of around 200 rounds. In fact, 1 30 rd mag started working as advertised, then after it was expended, the target at 50 yards had banana shaped holes all over the place. In the mil, M4/M16 rifles are considered "shot out" based on chamber erosion, which starts at the chamber. In theory, tumbling bullets should never happen in the mil if maintenance people are doing their job and gauging weapons on schedule. I have had my M4 "fail" chamber erosion checks while it was still grouping fine. The armorer/gunsmith would tell me it failed, and replace my barrel/bolt, no discussion. Which meant that I had to start at square 1 setting up my M4, zeroing, break-in, etc. I have also seen sniper rifles like a M24 with an unknown round count go in 1 day on the range from shooting MOA or better groups to printing groups that looked like they were from a Mosin with a bent barrel.

 

[briansmithwins]

A barrel is shot out when throat erosion causes accuracy to degrade to the point where it's no longer acceptable for you.

Small bores, high velocity, and powder type all influence barrel life. I have several 556 NATO barrels (cold hammer forged and hard chromed) with visible roughness in the throat even though those barrels still shoot fine. I expect them to last ~20k rounds before needing to swap them out. I have 9mmP carbine barrels that I don't expect to need to be replaced in my or my heirs lifetimes, barring a squib or some such.

If you shoot a lot, particularly small caliber, high velocity cartridges, barrels are a consumable item. When you factor in the cost of the ammo needed to shoot a barrel out a barrel isn't that expensive.

BSW

 

[Varminterror]

When you factor in the cost of the ammo needed to shoot a barrel out a barrel isn't that expensive.

I spend $600 per Bartlein, and typically buy 5 or more per year.

Considering my 243win used to cost around 65¢/round, and would chew up a barrel in 900 rounds, $585 worth of ammo, for those playing the home game, the cost of the barrel wasn’t inconsequential. Shooting 6 creeds now instead, I get around 1400 rounds per barrel and at normal pricing of 76¢/round, I’m just a hair over $1000 per barrel in ammo, again, spending $600 to replace it…

 

[Jim Watson]

I have also seen sniper rifles like a M24 with an unknown round count go in 1 day on the range from shooting MOA or better groups to printing groups that looked like they were from a Mosin with a bent barrel.

Me, too. An F class rifle suddenly failed to keep shots on the guy next to me's target backer. A friend said "Here, shoot mine." What a pal. But the loaner's trigger failed. Two matches of the day's three blown.

 

[herrwalther]

Vast majority of shooters will never wear out a barrel in their lifetime with standard shooting and cleaning. The rifling will wear out eventually but it takes several thousand rounds depending on too many factors to go into. The easy way of determining a worn out barrel is consistency. If you are shooting 1MOA groups all the time and they suddenly open up to 6MOA or something obscene with little change in your ammo type or cleaning, you might have a shot out barrel. Might being the operative word.

 

[Varminterror]

If you are shooting 1MOA groups all the time and they suddenly open up to 6MOA or something obscene with little change in your ammo type or cleaning, you might have a shot out barrel.

I’ve shot out dozens of barrels, and this 1moa becomes 6moa jingle has never been remotely any part of that calculus for a single one of those barrels.

 

[herrwalther]

I’ve shot out dozens of barrels, and this 1moa becomes 6moa jingle has never been remotely any part of that calculus for a single one of those barrels.

Not exact numbers, but a significant degradation in accuracy was my point. I have shot out barrels too. Unexplained accuracy changes is the easiest symptom to look for.

 

[jmr40]

The more powder you're burning in a smaller diameter barrel is a pretty good predictor of how long the barrel will last. A 243 is burning roughly the same amount of powder as a 308. But with a smaller diameter barrel a 243 will wear out a barrel a lot sooner than a 308. Exactly when is harder to say and is dependent on expectations. That is what makes it impossible to give an exact number. Your 223 has a small diameter barrel, but you're burning almost 1/2 as much powder as 243.