When SIG is All Wet!

[Lone Star]

I've been asked by a friend who goes out in canoes and kayaks if a SIG-Sauer auto will fire safely if she falls into the water.

I said it should, barring mud or water being in the bore. I think the P-226 passed government trials involving mud immersions?

I know the SEAL teams like the P-226, and they must carry it underwater and expect it to work when needed.

Can one actually be FIRED underwater, at least for the first shot? I know that range would be very limited, if that's safe at all.

Thanks,
Lone Star

 

[psyopspec]

If it's been submerged, then drained, it's fine aside from needing a good cleaning at the soonest opportunity.

I wouldn't fire a gun underwater not specifically designed for it, but if for some reason I had to, I'd make sure all empty space in the handgun was filled with water. If there was only a little air in the gun, it would be subject to bearing all the pressure if any blast or expanding air came in contact with it.

 

[jc2]

Since you mentioned SEAL use, from what I read, the P226 is NOT the weapon of choice in silty water, muddy water. In a silty environment, the 686 is the more reliable platform. So long as the water is relatively clear/clean submersion shouldn't adversely effect a P226's reliability. If the water is silty/dirty/etc., all bets are off.

 

[gopguy]

Not sure about shooting Sigs under water but Chuck Taylor has a Glock 17 that he has shot under water....part of a torture test. His has the special firing pin cup designed for being fired under water.

http://www.usashooters.org/artman/publish/printer_2372.shtml

 

[Saevar]

I know the Mythbusters guys fired a Sig underwater. I don't recall what model or caliber it was exactly. It did fire the first round but stovepiped.

It also had a bullet travel of a few feet. I think I recall the penetration, on ballistic gel at 2 feet, was something on the order of 2 inches. So... you'd be better off standing up, up out of the water, and then shooting. If for some reason you're grappling completely submerged.. you might be better off using a knife.

But the first shot WILL go bang!

-edit- I guess I should note that they were firing from a depth of a few inches... from clear water out of a hose. Whether or not that same Sig would fire in other types of water I couldn't say. Although I suspect it would.

 

[MadMercS55]

I've carried a P220 numerous times when camping, canoeing, etc. Most recent I was trying to walk across a creek that turned out to be deeper than it looked, and Sploosh! Me, the P220 and 3 mags went under. Got back to camp and cleaned it thoroughly, later put 30rnds through it with no problems. Before that my P220 got thoroughly mudded up during some spirited ATV riding. Again cleaned up and functioned just fine. One time I did fire 7rnds out of it right after getting it thoroughly soaked in a creek by accident and it never missed a beat. Salt water may be another story though.

 

[10-Ring]

I think newly dunked, you're okay...totally under water, keep swimming...
As previously mentioned, clean & lube ASAP

 

[Ironballs]

lets just say, it ain't a Glock

 

[Tom Servo]

You do NOT want to fire a gun underwater.

First off, remember that water is a MUCH more conducive medium for sound and pressure waves, meaning that the report will likely do some serious hearing damage. What's more, you're exerting more pressure on the internals than the gun was likely designed for.

As far as autoloaders, you'll be able to get one shot off, assuming it even makes it out of the barrel. If there's water blocking the bullet's path, well...I wouldn't take the chance. As it is, the water pressure would retard the motion of the slide, so I'd expect FTEs and/or FTFs. As the slide went back, water would flood into the action.

Sorry, Glock guys, your guns are affected just the same

I had a friend who was Coast Guard, and he said some sailors carried wheelguns (which don't have the same issues with feeding). Only thing was, they were only good at actual contact-range, ie. when the barrel was pressed against the target. That, and he said, it was LOUD.

 

[Jay Kominek]

You do NOT want to fire a gun underwater.
First off, remember that water is a MUCH more conducive medium for sound and pressure waves, meaning that the report will likely do some serious hearing damage.

It does not take a lot of imagination to come up with situations that are worse than hearing damage, which the judicious use of a firearm could solve. This is why you can't identify CWP holders by the hearing protection they wear everywhere.

What's more, you're exerting more pressure on the internals than the gun was likely designed for.

Maybe the barrel. Which is probably overengineered, anyways. Water pressure at the sort of depths you can reach without scuba gear is not significantly increased over atmospheric pressure (15psi), when considering that firearms develop pressures measured in tens of kilopsi.

As far as autoloaders, you'll be able to get one shot off, assuming it even makes it out of the barrel. If there's water blocking the bullet's path, well...I wouldn't take the chance. As it is, the water pressure would retard the motion of the slide, so I'd expect FTEs and/or FTFs.

Hindering the motion of the slide seems likely. A lighter spring might be in order.

As the slide went back, water would flood into the action.

I don't know if you've caulked your action shut or something, but my pistols have all sorts of little holes and gaps (like where the slide meets the frame) that water will gleefully try to enter the instant the firearm is placed into water. It isn't going to wait for the slide to move.

Has anyone ever tried this personally, or are we just all making stuff up and repeating things we heard from some guy? Could somebody ask some ballistic/load developing software what sort of pressure curve you get if you fire with an atmospheric pressure of 30psi? (A bit more than 30 feet underwater, twice the air pressure at sea level.)