When to disengage the manual safety?

[krept]

Hello,

serious question here and I would appreciate any insight or comments that you can give me. Sorry if this has been covered multiple times.

My question is simple... when do you disengage the manual safety? Some possibilities...

- Remove the manual safety as soon as the pistol is unsheathed or brought out. If you need a quick draw--> fire, this is the way to go. If you perceive a threat but have not identified one (e.g. bump in the night) you have a pistol that is ready to fire, should a goblin surprise you. I would argue that if you do not have the training to keep your finger off the trigger, how would you have the presence of mind to disengage the safety under stress?

- keep safety on until threat is positively ID'd. This would work with a pistol where you have the ability to ride the safety. I.e. as trigger finger is brought into action, safety is disengaged. But if you don't shoot this way or if you cannot (like me w/ my USP) I don't think this is a good option. Keeping the safety on in this case, you run the risk of being surprised and here, hopefully your training to disengage the safety would come into play instead of instinct (think "SQUEEZE TRIGGER = BANG!" only).

- other possibilities, I guess, would run the spectrum. Keep safety on while in interview postion, but disengage when moving in a low ready, etc.

The bottom line here is that I have not had formal training in this area and simply don't know how it's taught. Because I can't ride the safety on my USP, I simply disengage the safety when a threat is perceived and keep my trigger finger glued to the frame of the hot potato. If I had a 1911, I'd ride the safety as described in the second bullet.

Any insight and comments are appreciated. I just don't know "what is right" although any of the above methods could be "what works."

I guess a similar parallel would be for the P7 folks..... when do you squeeze the cocker?

THANKS

 

[Pain]

I would have to say what you are doing is the best option, as you are most familiar with this scenario. Disengage the safety when you draw the pistol, and don't touch the trigger until the threat is perceived. This will keep any unwanted discharge from occuring, if you are startled. Ie: If the wife sneaks up on you unaware that you are asessing a perceived threat in the backyard. It will also keep you from having to " think about disengaging the safety" should the need to fire occurs. You want to do what you feel most comfortable with should you have to engage in combat..... Hope this helps !

 

[10-Ring]

This is all contingent upon the use of a quality holster. I usually disengage the safety upon holstering. Then upon drawing, there is one less 'thing' I have to worry about.
Really tho, as long as you train & commit to one method, you'll be fine.

 

[Cameron Lamont]

As the hangdun clears the holster the saftey is disengaged.

The safety is engaged right before the gun is holstered (do not holster until the threat has gone).

If the saftey / combat rule; (Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until the target is identified and you are prepared to shoot) is not broken you will have no problems.

If you cannot obey the finger rule, you have no business holding a gun.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[Cameron Lamont]

10 Ring.

What gun / holster combo do you have that you disengage the safety once holstered?

Thanks.
Cameron

 

[krept]

Thanks for the responses.

For some reason, I was under the impression that the safety was left on until the last possible moment (easier to do if you ride the safety).

 

[benewton]

I'm with 10-ring on this one, but I carry the USPc, with decocker. It goes into the holster with one up the pipe, hammer down, and safety off, since I figure that I'll be late getting the weapon out, and anything that slows it down active deployment further would be a bad idea.

 

[Cameron Lamont]

I too carry a USP Compact.

However, with the way the double action pull is...

I carry it cock & locked.
I have found it to be a little faster and a lot more accurate to disengage the safety while drawing the gun and then engage the first target with a single action trigger pull.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[benewton]

Probably true on the cocked and locked, but, for one irrational reason or another, I distrust that mode of carry, and so, go my own way.

Nice that the USP lets you take your choice, isn't it?

 

[Cameron Lamont]

My thoughts exactly.

Cameron

 

[Wild Bill]

Because I haven’t had any range time with the USP, this might not be the best solution for your situation. Most of my experience/training with semi-autos has been with the 1911 or CZ styles where you can ride the safety.

My practice is to disengage the safety when the gun is moving onto the target and the trigger finger is entering the trigger guard. Because of this the drill’s real simple – muzzle coverage, thumb down, finger in, bang. This procedure has never failed me. I’ve had this so entrained into memory that it’s an automatic reaction, every time, always.

Sadly it’s so much a habit that I occasionally catch myself trying to swipe-off the safety on the Glock and the wheel guns. Thankfully all that happens then is the guys my age smile knowingly and the kids shake their heads at the old timer.

 

[sanchezero]

I make my gun ready to fire during the period that the barrel moves from vertical to horizontal/targeted. It seems really natural for me to do this admin stuff as my elbow pivots.

Some shooters I know train to remove safety when their hands meet or when they're on target, but I like to be ready to pull the trigger as soon as I won't actually be able to hit myself.

 

[shepsan]

Krept, my opinion differs from the majority that have commented on this subject.

I carry CCW. My 1911 never leaves its holster unless I am confronted with what I perceive as an imminent and lethal attack. Furthermore, I do not consider it safe or prudent to slide the manual safety off of my cocked and locked 1911 until I thrust the gun forward towards the attacker.

At that time, the thumb of my gun hand slides the safety off while my index finger goes into the trigger guard. These two actions occur almost simultaneously while my 1911 is traveling forward into either a point-shoot or front sight alignment stance.

If the threat is deescalated without my pistol being discharged, the safety goes on and my index finger comes to the outside of the trigger guard. The pistol remains unholstered at the ready until the threat is completely removed.

 

[arinvolvo]

In the pump handle draw method, I would advise the safety be thumbed while still in the high position, but when the muzzle has made its way to the 45 degree angle mark relative to your body...just before extension into high ready/low ready/retention ready.

With practice it is easy to master, and to do quickly.

On a gun like the Steyr, which I have, and carry....The gun can be left on safe until the instant you want to fire....one movement of your finger in the rearward/upward position unsafes the gun, and fires in a fraction of a second....unpercievable to anyone watching....and with practice, it will not throw off your aim.

But besides all of that...I would rather carry a decocked/unsafed gun with a heavy DA trigger on the first pull...it is safe, reliable, and idiot proof.

 

[only1asterisk]

My practice is similar to arinvolvo,
As long as the gun is pointed downrange and away from your body, feel free to wait as long as you like to disengage the safety. I prefer to train consistantly, taking the safety off everytime in the same point of the draw/presentation.

David

 

[Marko Kloos]

I guess a similar parallel would be for the P7 folks..... when do you squeeze the cocker?

Whenever the gun clears leather.

 

[cool45auto]

I prefer to train consistantly, taking the safety off everytime in the same point of the draw/presentation.

Exactly.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

I disengage the safety as the pistol comes into view, after my support hand has met the pistol.

 

[Shaughn Leayme]

I use a thumb break holster for my 1911 and when I draw my thumb is riding the rear edge of the slide with my index finger up on the frame resting on the slide release lever, or if right handed just behind the slide stop pin and just before I fully acquire the target my thumb slips off the back of the slide and disengages the safety and assumes a rest point, thumbs locked down under the safety, not riding it.

I do it the same at the same point every time and except at the very beginning I haven't had a fumble since.

When hosltering I also keep my thumb locked down over the hammer of my 1911 as a check, just incase, perhaps due to an awkward holstering that the safety doesn't get disengaged and the trigger gets pulled by catching on the holster.

There are many schools of thought on this, find the one that suits you and the pistol being used and practice, practice, practice.....

 

[Chris Rhines]

I disengage the safety on my CZ as soon as the pistol is out of the holster.

- Chris

 

[PenHolder]

HK USP in condition one

For you folks that carry USPs in condition one: have you changed your gun to a variant without a decocker?

The control lever on almost every USP I've seen (variant 1), from the top, selects "safe-fire-decock". It seems to me that moving from "safe" to "fire" under stress is a good recipe for decocking the weapon unintentionally, sticking you with an unexpectedly long trigger pull.

How do you handle this? Just curious.

-PH

 

[MLH]

If you have a DA with a long trigger pull

Then I recommend not even putting the safety on. Let your trigger finger be your safety and keep it off the trigger untill your ready to shoot! If a SA and C&L then brush it off as your drawing.