Which 5 pistol barrels for a T/C Contender, no particular purpose, fun load/shoot?
- Thread starter MatthewVanitas
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My one easy open frame, .22 magnum
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An old archery bud runs a Super 16 in .35 Rem as handgun. I run mine as rifle
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If I get a stainless frame I might go .22 magnum rifle with it.
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An old archery bud runs a Super 16 in .35 Rem as handgun. I run mine as rifle
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If I get a stainless frame I might go .22 magnum rifle with it.
Contenders are so versatile, about any cartridge that the Contender can handle will work well. So, my suggestion is choose your favorite cartridges and have fun.
The Contender Carbines are great fun. I have two, one in 22 Hornet and the other in 221 Remington Fireball. Light, quick handling, accurate rifles.
I also have barrels in 7mm International Rimmed (Super 14), 357 Magnum (10") and 221 Remington Fireball (10").
Just remember, you cannot mix short barrels with carbine stocks without the frame being approved as a short barreled rifle.
There are barrel makers out there that will make custom barrels for the Contender that increases the number of cartridges available for the Contender. My 221 Remington Fireball carbine barrel is a Bullberry and it outshoots my 221 Remington Fireball Remington 700.
The Contender Carbines are great fun. I have two, one in 22 Hornet and the other in 221 Remington Fireball. Light, quick handling, accurate rifles.
I also have barrels in 7mm International Rimmed (Super 14), 357 Magnum (10") and 221 Remington Fireball (10").
Just remember, you cannot mix short barrels with carbine stocks without the frame being approved as a short barreled rifle.
There are barrel makers out there that will make custom barrels for the Contender that increases the number of cartridges available for the Contender. My 221 Remington Fireball carbine barrel is a Bullberry and it outshoots my 221 Remington Fireball Remington 700.
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MatthewVanitas
Member
I have mixed feelings on the Contender carbine, since to one degree they are just ridiculously handy little 16" rifles, and lovely things. But having them as rifles takes a bit away from their uniqueness as pistols, and makes their lack of repeating more prominent. A bit of an abstract argument, I suppose. The longer barrels also make more conventional cartridges more practical, as opposed to the shorter barrels that led to all the "workaround" cartridges to make the most of a 10-14" barrel length.
I'm finding it really interesting that so many folks in this thread have barrels of .35 Rem, given that there exists the .357 Herrett, which sought to replace it as a short-barrel alternative, analogous to how the .30 Herrett is a cut-down 30-30 to minimize the flash-bang you get shooting that larger cartridge from a short barrel.
At least in my current conception of my planned collection, I think I still want a core 5 pistol barrels (plus a .22LR). Not to muddy up the thread, but do folks have a favorite cartridge that's a real "awesome in T/C but you really want at least 16" on this one"?
I'm finding it really interesting that so many folks in this thread have barrels of .35 Rem, given that there exists the .357 Herrett, which sought to replace it as a short-barrel alternative, analogous to how the .30 Herrett is a cut-down 30-30 to minimize the flash-bang you get shooting that larger cartridge from a short barrel.
At least in my current conception of my planned collection, I think I still want a core 5 pistol barrels (plus a .22LR). Not to muddy up the thread, but do folks have a favorite cartridge that's a real "awesome in T/C but you really want at least 16" on this one"?
Steve in PA
Member
My T/C's, from top to bottom;
10" .22 Hornet
14" .223
14" 7-30 Waters
10" .22lr.
I'm wanting to add either a 14" .44 Magnum or a .35 Remington.
10" .22 Hornet
14" .223
14" 7-30 Waters
10" .22lr.
I'm wanting to add either a 14" .44 Magnum or a .35 Remington.
IKE
Member
I've thinned the herd of my pistol length Contender barrels considerably and only kept what I felt I couldn't live without.......I kept all four of my blue frames.
All are 14", scoped and blue.
.22 long rifle
6mm TCU
6.5mm TCU
7mm TCU
300 Whisper
All are 14", scoped and blue.
.22 long rifle
6mm TCU
6.5mm TCU
7mm TCU
300 Whisper
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MatthewVanitas
Member
There's a neat article at the Shooting Times on this same issue, but with 7 top centerfire barrels. Their choices:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_magseven_200902/
-.223 Rem
- 6.5 JDJ (.225 case)
- 7mm TCU (.223 case)
- 30-30
- 309 JDJ (.444 Marlin case)
-.375 JDJ (.444 Marlin case)
-.45-70 Gov't
I'm certainly no expert, but it does look like that list has a lot of overlap. The article also doesn't specify barrel length, but it's my understanding that the .221 Fireball and the .30 Herrett are really favorable alternatives to the .223 and 30-30 in short barrels, and he certainly has plenty of wildcats on his list. Honestly the #2-#5 items on the list seem much of a muchness for hunting (with the 7mm TCU being comparatively marginal), in the sense of all being "good on deer" cartridges. And given that the .375 JDJ is used to kill elephants, they don't clearly explain why you'd need a 45-70 in addition. Not that "it's fun" isn't a reason, and not that the article claims you have to have all these, but just idly noting.
If I were trying to go really minimal, again with "fun shooting and loading" being the goal, I think I could do just fine with just three centrefires. One small and fast like the .20 VarTag, 5mm Craig, or .221 Fireball, one right down the middle with 6.5 TCU (or JDJ, anything around that area), and then something big and slow at the top end for fun. I kind of have a thing for uncommon bore sizes (thus the interest in .20, 6.5, etc) so for the large end I could see doing .41 Mag or some wildcat thereof like the .41 GNR. Though I think one of the most fun-sounding would be a .480 Ruger. As I understand it the .475 Linebaugh is a bit much and better in an Encore, but the .480 can be loaded pretty calmly, and it'd be cool to have a bore than most kids on the block don't have. So if I were just getting three centerfires (and of course a .22 LR), something along those lines sounds good.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_magseven_200902/
-.223 Rem
- 6.5 JDJ (.225 case)
- 7mm TCU (.223 case)
- 30-30
- 309 JDJ (.444 Marlin case)
-.375 JDJ (.444 Marlin case)
-.45-70 Gov't
I'm certainly no expert, but it does look like that list has a lot of overlap. The article also doesn't specify barrel length, but it's my understanding that the .221 Fireball and the .30 Herrett are really favorable alternatives to the .223 and 30-30 in short barrels, and he certainly has plenty of wildcats on his list. Honestly the #2-#5 items on the list seem much of a muchness for hunting (with the 7mm TCU being comparatively marginal), in the sense of all being "good on deer" cartridges. And given that the .375 JDJ is used to kill elephants, they don't clearly explain why you'd need a 45-70 in addition. Not that "it's fun" isn't a reason, and not that the article claims you have to have all these, but just idly noting.
If I were trying to go really minimal, again with "fun shooting and loading" being the goal, I think I could do just fine with just three centrefires. One small and fast like the .20 VarTag, 5mm Craig, or .221 Fireball, one right down the middle with 6.5 TCU (or JDJ, anything around that area), and then something big and slow at the top end for fun. I kind of have a thing for uncommon bore sizes (thus the interest in .20, 6.5, etc) so for the large end I could see doing .41 Mag or some wildcat thereof like the .41 GNR. Though I think one of the most fun-sounding would be a .480 Ruger. As I understand it the .475 Linebaugh is a bit much and better in an Encore, but the .480 can be loaded pretty calmly, and it'd be cool to have a bore than most kids on the block don't have. So if I were just getting three centerfires (and of course a .22 LR), something along those lines sounds good.
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MatthewVanitas
Member
Doing more reading up on the big-bore end of the T/C spectrum. 45-70 is clearly popular, but Mike Bellm has a great article explaining that .444 Marlin is the optimal T/C big-bore for a number of reasons, and also that wildcats (7mm and up) for the T/C are largely best when based on the .444 brass, as the JDJ series and a number of the Bellm series. .444 apparently has some back-thrust advantage given its smaller head, allowing higher pressures than would be advisable in 45-70. Interesting stuff: http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/Why.htm
Bellm makes the great point too that since .444 brass is so big, you can take pretty much any existing T/C barrel and rechamber it for a .444-based wildcat, and end up with a nice clean and expertly-made chamber and throat for your .30, .35, .375 or whatnot bore.
That aside, I still have this yearning for something larger that .44/45 in a T/C, but the only folks I see making .480 Ruger barrels are doing them for the Encore instead. I thought this was a bit over-cautious at first, but looking at the numbers a warmish .480 Ruger load is approaching max advisable pressure for a T/C, so I could see makers not wanting to do that even if you pinky-swear to not load hotter rounds (also too the next guy you sell it to might not being paying attention to the caveat).
I dimly recalled there's a .47/.48 cartridge designed to be the largest round safely usable in a Colt Peacemaker. Basically it's a .45 Colt with a heeled bullet bringing the diameter up to .47, a sort of re-creation of the first variant of the .476 Eley (later variants were apparently actually .45 despite the name, which I'd guess means they really rattled down the bore of the earlier guns). However it involves custom molds and a willingness to do all your own casting, and the slight extra hassles involved in loading heeled bullets. Plus the designers themselves admitted it has no practical use other than just being a fun exercise.
I was close to giving up on having a .48 barrel for a T/C Contender, but then ran across vague mention of the .475 Cooper. As I understand it, it pre-dates the .480 Ruger, and was a cut-down .475 Libebaugh that was even shorter than the modern .480 Ruger is. These days you could make it by just trimming .480 brass down a bit. No idea if there's load data for it, or if someone (smarter than I) could eyeball the .480 load data and say how much it needs to be dialed down for the smaller cartridge. But I figure that one might be worth a look. If it's just a shorter .480, can a guy with a .475 barrel blank and a reamer just ream slightly shorter with a Ruger or Linebaugh reamer? That way you'd have a barrel that no nitwit could unthinkingly shove .480 Ruger rounds into, and I would assume would run at a slightly lower pressure which might push it down into the safe zone for the Contender. Thoughts?
Bellm makes the great point too that since .444 brass is so big, you can take pretty much any existing T/C barrel and rechamber it for a .444-based wildcat, and end up with a nice clean and expertly-made chamber and throat for your .30, .35, .375 or whatnot bore.
That aside, I still have this yearning for something larger that .44/45 in a T/C, but the only folks I see making .480 Ruger barrels are doing them for the Encore instead. I thought this was a bit over-cautious at first, but looking at the numbers a warmish .480 Ruger load is approaching max advisable pressure for a T/C, so I could see makers not wanting to do that even if you pinky-swear to not load hotter rounds (also too the next guy you sell it to might not being paying attention to the caveat).
I dimly recalled there's a .47/.48 cartridge designed to be the largest round safely usable in a Colt Peacemaker. Basically it's a .45 Colt with a heeled bullet bringing the diameter up to .47, a sort of re-creation of the first variant of the .476 Eley (later variants were apparently actually .45 despite the name, which I'd guess means they really rattled down the bore of the earlier guns). However it involves custom molds and a willingness to do all your own casting, and the slight extra hassles involved in loading heeled bullets. Plus the designers themselves admitted it has no practical use other than just being a fun exercise.
I was close to giving up on having a .48 barrel for a T/C Contender, but then ran across vague mention of the .475 Cooper. As I understand it, it pre-dates the .480 Ruger, and was a cut-down .475 Libebaugh that was even shorter than the modern .480 Ruger is. These days you could make it by just trimming .480 brass down a bit. No idea if there's load data for it, or if someone (smarter than I) could eyeball the .480 load data and say how much it needs to be dialed down for the smaller cartridge. But I figure that one might be worth a look. If it's just a shorter .480, can a guy with a .475 barrel blank and a reamer just ream slightly shorter with a Ruger or Linebaugh reamer? That way you'd have a barrel that no nitwit could unthinkingly shove .480 Ruger rounds into, and I would assume would run at a slightly lower pressure which might push it down into the safe zone for the Contender. Thoughts?
TRX
Member
I don't see any problem with your choices. FWIW, I've never heard anyone describe .22 Hornet brass as "fragile" before...
A friend has a Lone Eagle in .458 Winchester Magnum. It's buckets of fun with factory ammo. Practically, I don't think there would be much difference between any of the big bores with a 10" or so barrel; once the bullet leaves the muzzle the rest of the powder just makes nifty fireballs and blows the hats off bystanders. A .45-70 would probably be indistinguishable from the .458, at least with factory loads. Once you handload you can do anything you want. For the amount of brass you'd need, price wouldn't be a factor.
A friend has a Lone Eagle in .458 Winchester Magnum. It's buckets of fun with factory ammo. Practically, I don't think there would be much difference between any of the big bores with a 10" or so barrel; once the bullet leaves the muzzle the rest of the powder just makes nifty fireballs and blows the hats off bystanders. A .45-70 would probably be indistinguishable from the .458, at least with factory loads. Once you handload you can do anything you want. For the amount of brass you'd need, price wouldn't be a factor.
I have 10" .22 and .44 Mag, and 14" 7-30 Waters and .357 Herretts, all wood grips and fore ends. I don't feel that I need any more.
I recall seeing one at a (pre Encore) gun show with a sign ".375 H&H Are You Man Enough?"
um..........no as a matter of fact
IMO, It's worth remembering Contenders do have limits. Side plates have been blown off pushing them too hard.
I recall seeing one at a (pre Encore) gun show with a sign ".375 H&H Are You Man Enough?"
um..........no as a matter of fact
IMO, It's worth remembering Contenders do have limits. Side plates have been blown off pushing them too hard.
Grumulkin
Member
A few museings:
In handgun cartridges I have or have had Contender barrels in 22 LR, 22 WMR, 30/30 Winchester, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum and 357 Herrett. I'm used to shooting big cartridges in Encores including 375 H&H Magnum and can say that 44 Magnum in a Contender is not fun but the others aren't bad. The only one of those I'm keeping is the barrel in 22 LR.
For carbine barrels, I have or have had barrels in 17 Mach 2, 17 HMR, 204 Ruger, 222 Remington, 30/30 Winchester and 375 JDJ. The only ones of those I'm keeping are the barrels in 17 HMR and 204 Ruger. Over the years I've gotten over needing something "edgy." I want something that works, is accurate and is easy to get ammunition for.
There are idiots out there that will chamber Contender barrels for entirely inappropiate cartridges. Also, be aware that some loadings of things like the 45-70 that are entirely appropriate for some guns aren't appropriate for the Contender. Personally, for the Contender I think it's better to stick with the smaller diameter cartridges.
In handgun cartridges I have or have had Contender barrels in 22 LR, 22 WMR, 30/30 Winchester, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum and 357 Herrett. I'm used to shooting big cartridges in Encores including 375 H&H Magnum and can say that 44 Magnum in a Contender is not fun but the others aren't bad. The only one of those I'm keeping is the barrel in 22 LR.
For carbine barrels, I have or have had barrels in 17 Mach 2, 17 HMR, 204 Ruger, 222 Remington, 30/30 Winchester and 375 JDJ. The only ones of those I'm keeping are the barrels in 17 HMR and 204 Ruger. Over the years I've gotten over needing something "edgy." I want something that works, is accurate and is easy to get ammunition for.
There are idiots out there that will chamber Contender barrels for entirely inappropiate cartridges. Also, be aware that some loadings of things like the 45-70 that are entirely appropriate for some guns aren't appropriate for the Contender. Personally, for the Contender I think it's better to stick with the smaller diameter cartridges.
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