Which 6.5 now that lapua makes brass for both?

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srawl

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I have planned out my short action rifle build and have narrowed it down to 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5 Lapua.

I know they are extremely similar but after combing through dozens of threads it basically comes down to creedmoor if you don't reload and lapua if you do because the lapua is more accurate and has set records for said accuracy.

When trying to find out why it was more accurate it wasn't so much of a case design rather than brass being available from lapua.

My question is are they now 100% equal due to small primer creedmoor brass being available from lapua? I don't need there to be factory available ammunition but it would be a plus.

However, since I will be buying dies and brass anyway, I plan to just buy the best caliber regardless of factory ammo. I May Hunt with it and I may eventually get into some competition with it, but 90% of the shooting will be done at my local 300 yard range with the odd trip to a range that goes out to 1000.

More competition shooters use the creedmoor, but more at the top use the lapua. The data is not out yet after creedmoor lapua brass...

I know there are dozens of other variables but if it came down to everything being equal like brass, primer, bullets, and powder. Assuming the barrels were the same would there be any advantage to one over the other?

I know I could probably flip a coin, but I also know that there are people on here who do you have some genuine experience and could offer some helpful insight.

Thanks
 
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I like the creedmoor since it has more case capacity. I think either will do well, but if I had to pick that is the direction I would go!

Better capacity should be appreciated when tossing the long heavy bullets with a bit less pressure. Things may change of course if you have control over the throating and COAL of the round. Possible better barrel life may be in play with reduced pressure as well. If you are sticking with sub 130 class bullets then it may not matter, but I like the longer bullets in my 6.5, so I will take all the case capacity I can get.
 
I would go with the CM just because there are cheaper brass alternatives as well as the good lapua.

Honestly the only reason i even looked at lapua brass is that ive heard hornady dosent hold up to full pressure loading as well. So i cant say what the accuracy gains might be.

I cant say for sure if the hornady brass is less durable either, but my current load is well beyond book max and im not seeing any issues besides flat ish primers. Well see how many firings i can get from these cases.
 
Lapua also makes brass for the .260 Rem, which is better 6.5 than the other two in all respects.
 
Lapua also makes brass for the .260 Rem, which is better 6.5 than the other two in all respects.
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Would like to hear your rational as well.

It is true that the 260 is capable of doing anything the 6.5 Creedmoor will do. But not with factory loads nor with a factory rifle. Long range target shooters have been hand loading 260 with heavier 140-147 gr bullets for a while now. But in order to get them to chamber and shoot with any accuracy required custom barrels. If you limit bullet weights to 130 gr or less they are nearly identical. But that defeats the purpose.

The whole point of the 6.5 Creed was to offer factory rifles and ammo designed from the factory to shoot these longer high BC bullets without having to go the custom route.

The 6.5X55 can be better since it offers more powder capacity thus more speed. But once again custom rifles and barrels are needed as well as a long action.

I'm not as familiar with the 6.5 Lapua, but it appears to be identical to 6.5 Creed in performance. Velocity with similar bullets seems almost identical, but they show it from a 30" 6.5 Lapua barrel vs a 24" Creedmoor barrel.
 
My girlfriend has a custom "tactical" rifle chambered in 6.5x47mm Lapua and last year I put a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel on my AI AW that was originally chambered in .308 Win. I handload for both, we shoot both and both are easily capable of sub 0.5 moa groups out to 1,000 yards or more. 100 and 200 yard 5-shot groups are typically in the sub 0.3 moa range or better for both. I load a 130gr Berger Match VLD for her using Varget (38.5gr) and a 140gr A-MAX or ELD for me using Reloder 17 (43.4gr). I'm getting 2,850 fps with a suppressor from a 24" barrel and she's getting around 2,650 fps from a 21" barrel without a suppressor (her rifle isn't threaded for one). Her Lapua brass is a lot better than my Hornady brass, but given the availability of Lapua brass for the 6.5 Creedmoor I'd go with the Creedmoor for the simple reason that it will drive a 140gr bullet faster than the 6.5x47mm and good factory ammunition is easy to find and somewhat affordable. Here are some handloads for her rifle (left) and my rifle. For the record, I didn't work up the 6.5x47mm load for her (ex-husband's recipe) and I think it's probably on the slow side. I'm sure I could push it to the next node without dropping primers.

By the way, I find it interesting that .308 Win Lapua brass is about 30% cheaper than 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass.

6.5cm_6.5_47.jpg
 
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Lapua stuff is high priced because it comes from Europe. Not because it's any better. Think in terms of which is easiest to find brass and ammo where you are vs who made it.
 
Sunray said:
Lapua stuff is high priced because it comes from Europe. Not because it's any better. Think in terms of which is easiest to find brass and ammo where you are vs who made it.
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I disagree. For one thing, both Norma and Nosler brass is more expensive than Lapua. For another, Lapua has a well-earned reputation for being uniquely excellent & ready to load right out of the box, and that comes from superior manufacturing methods and QA/QC, which will, of course, add cost. Regardless, match shooters generally prefer it above all others. It really is good stuff.

One note on Lapua brass though: It also has thicker walls than other brands. Some argue this makes it more durable, but there's no argument that Lapua brass has a bit less case capacity as a result. If you're gonna use Lapua brass, then, work your way up to max. Don't simply use your old load data if you're switching to Lapua, especially if you're getting near max.
 
Lapua stuff is high priced because it comes from Europe. Not because it's any better.
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Lapua brass is superior to just about everything else in many tangible ways such as consistent wall thickness, consistent mass for a given lot, primer pocket uniformity, flash hole uniformity, concentricity, case mouth anneal, case head hardness, and longevity. Lapua has elected to use a small rifle primer and a 1.5mm flash hole for their 6.5 Creedmoor brass which has been proven to aid accuracy and longevity for a number of cartridges.
 
I almost built a .260 Rem a few years ago. I had a Badger M2008 action, AICS chassis and Krieger barrel, but after buying an AI AW I lost interest in building another "not an AI rifle" so I sold the parts to others. I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor Bartlein barrel for my AI to see what all the fuss is about, and to be honest, I still prefer .308 Win to 6.5 CM and probably won't replace the 6.5 barrel once it's shot out. As to whether or not the .260 Rem is superior to the 6.5 Creedmoor, I think the answer is "it depends". I wonder if there would even be a 6.5 Creedmoor had Remington pushed the cartridge the way Hornady has pushed the 6.5 CM. The most commonly cited advantage of the 6.5CM is the ease with which it handles 140gr + bullets in terms of bearing surface between the case neck and bullet shank, but that's not an issue for many .260 Rem owners that don't load to SAAMI max length, who have rifles with long leades, who have custom reamers or who don't shoot specific 140gr + bullets. The one thing that's certain is that there are better and more choices in terms of factory ammunition for the 6.5 Creedmoor and way more factory rifles available for that cartridge, but for anyone who handloads, the .260 Rem can equal the 6.5 CM and it can be had in AI form which pretty much eclipses anything that the 6.5 CM can do. If I were interested in hunting with a 6.5mm bullet I'd probably go the .260 AI or 6.5-280 AI route and have a barrel that would last a lifetime.
 
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MCMXI said:
I almost built a .260 Rem a few years ago. I had a Badger M2008 action, AICS chassis and Krieger barrel, but after buying an AI AW I lost interest in building another "not an AI rifle" so I sold the parts to others. I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor Bartlein barrel for my AI to see what all the fuss is about, and to be honest, I still prefer .308 Win to 6.5 CM and probably won't replace the 6.5 barrel once it's shot out. As to whether or not the .260 Rem is superior to the 6.5 Creedmoor, I think the answer is "it depends". I wonder if there would even be a 6.5 Creedmoor had Remington pushed the cartridge the way Hornady has pushed the 6.5 CM. The most commonly cited advantage of the 6.5CM is the ease with which it handles 140gr + bullets in terms of bearing surface between the case neck and bullet shank, but that's not an issue for many .260 Rem owners that don't load to SAAMI max length, who have rifles with long leades, who have custom reamers or who don't shoot specific 140gr + bullets. The one thing that's certain is that there are better and more choices in terms of factory ammunition for the 6.5 Creedmoor and way more factory rifles available for that cartridge, but for anyone who handloads, the .260 Rem can equal the 6.5 CM and it can be had in AI form which pretty much eclipses anything that the 6.5 CM can do. If I were interested in hunting with a 6.5mm bullet I'd probably go the .260 AI or 6.5-280 AI route and have a barrel that would last a lifetime.
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That's why it's hard to take a statement like Offfhand's seriously, especially with no effort whatsoever put forth to explain or back it up. From where I'm sitting, IF you load over SAAMI max length, have a rifle that has an oversized mag (like AICS), use a custom reamer (there's a reason the .260 Tac is popular), have an 8 twist barrel, don't mind having fewer rifle and far fewer ammo options, or aren't interested in shooting heavy high BC bullets, then the .260 is as good as the 6.5 CM. But I have yet to hear how it's markedly better, even with all those IF boxes checked. On the other side, the 6.5 CM came out of the gate twisted and spec'd correctly for the popular high BC bullets, is able to run all but the pointiest bullets a reasonable distance off the lands at SAAMI oals, and is available in lots of factory rifles, most of which don't have mag boxes that allow AICS type lengths. Even with the longest bullets, the 6.5 CM will still give you more seating depth options than a normal .260 chamber. Most of these points also apply to the 6.5 Lapua, except, obviously factory rifle and ammo availability.

Of course different strokes for different folks, I've been through 5 .308's at this point, and honestly its a good cartridge, but so are many many others. I love my .308 CTR, but when the barrel dies I'll probably have it rebarreled in something like 6.5 or 6 CM, or perhaps even 7mm-08 just to try something new.

Just out of curiosity, why would a .260 AI or 6.5-280 AI barrel last a lifetime? Given their higher capacity than the medium 6.5's, it seems logical that either would burn a barrel in fewer rounds.

As an aside, I got a chance to shoot my first two AI AX's at the range today (one in .308 and one in 6.5 CM), they were very nice, but the triggers were a bit heavier than I expected. I assume the triggers are adjustable on the AI rifles? If I was going to lay down $4,500 on one precision rifle, they'd be right at the top of the list.
 
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Yes, AI triggers are adjustable and they're two stage. My comment re the barrel life of a .260 AI or 6.5-280 AI is that if it's a hunting rifle I'm not going to put 1,500 rounds through it. I'm going to work up one or two loads and then hunt with it.

Honestly, if I had a .260 Rem I wouldn't dump it for a 6.5 CM. If I were looking for an off the shelf short action 6.5 then it would be a no brainer to go with a 6.5 CM. If I'm wanting a custom 6.5 I'd opt for the .260 AI.

I prefer the .308 Win over the 6.5 CM for hunting only because I shoot monolithic copper bullets which means 120gr is the heaviest option for the CM and it doesn't compare as well to the 165gr TTSX that I use in my .308 Win.
 
MCMXI said:
I wonder if there would even be a 6.5 Creedmoor had Remington pushed the cartridge the way Hornady has pushed the 6.5 CM
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This is precisely correct. Any way you look at it, the 6.5 CM is nothing more than a wannabe .260.
 
Offhand, where is it better? You've been asked, but so far haven't answered. I have rifles in both chambers, so I've got some experience. I'd like to learn what you seem to know. Thanks.
 
the 6.5 cm is a better cartridge than the 260rem. I'd pick it any day.
the 6.5cm MIGHT be better than the 6.5x47 but only in lapua brass with small primer pockets. Not all lapua brass is created equal. Lapua's 260rem brass sucks imho. it's not nearly as good as their 308win and 223rem brass, which is unmatched.
 
i think i've mentioned that a few times over the past few years. for the same money, I'd rather shoot hornady or rem brass than lapua in 260. if i really felt like using lapua brass, i would start with lapua 243win brass and neck up. maybe i got bad batches? i dunno. i don't recall ever getting a bad batch of lapua 243, 223, or 308
 
taliv said:
Not all lapua brass is created equal. Lapua's 260rem brass sucks imho. it's not nearly as good as their 308win and 223rem brass
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Thank you, this is an interesting observation and deserves more explanation. I've been using Lapua .260 brass since first available and have found no difference in quality in comparison with it and other the Lapua calibers I use. But perhaps I'm missing something: I spot check each lot using my Juenke ICC (Internal Concentricity Comparator) ,(See photo attached) and measure case neck wall thickness for uniformity, base to shoulder hardness, etc, and find no more variations than with other calibers. Neck wall uniformity in fact tends to be exceptionally close with each of my lots of .260 so uniform there has been no need for peeling the thick areas with neck turner. Case life is also about same as other calibers. So please point out what I'm missing and why you say Lapua .260 is not as good as other calibers.. Thank you DSC09375.JPG
 
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