which 7mm catridge would be the best chocie for elk and deer?
- Thread starter agent00
- Start date
- Status
Vern Humphrey
Member
You have three basic choices, the 7X57 Mauser, the 7mm-08 Remington, and the 7mm Remington Magnum.
The first two are ballistically identical, so the choice between them is really dependent on availability of rifles and ammuntion. If you load your own cartridges, the ammunition question is, of course solved. If you choose either one of these, I recommend using the heaviest bullet available for elk. I would choose a premium bullet as well -- the Nosler Partion Jacket is a fine choice.
The 7mm Remington Magnum is a more powerful cartridge (although power is not a substitute for accuracy or shooting ability.) It is the choice of a lot of elk hunters in America. Again, a heavy premium bullet is advised for elk.
The first two are ballistically identical, so the choice between them is really dependent on availability of rifles and ammuntion. If you load your own cartridges, the ammunition question is, of course solved. If you choose either one of these, I recommend using the heaviest bullet available for elk. I would choose a premium bullet as well -- the Nosler Partion Jacket is a fine choice.
The 7mm Remington Magnum is a more powerful cartridge (although power is not a substitute for accuracy or shooting ability.) It is the choice of a lot of elk hunters in America. Again, a heavy premium bullet is advised for elk.
beerslurpy
member
I am fond of 7mm rem mag, but I own one already, so I am biased.
I imagine any of them would hurt the deer pretty badly if they hit. There were guys who hunted elephants with 7x57 back in the day. If you can score hits, you should have no problem taking deer with any 7mm I have ever heard of.
I imagine any of them would hurt the deer pretty badly if they hit. There were guys who hunted elephants with 7x57 back in the day. If you can score hits, you should have no problem taking deer with any 7mm I have ever heard of.
rbernie
Contributing Member
7mm08 is good for 120gr and 140gr but it starts to run out of steam when using 160gr-175gr bullets. 7mm Mag, on the other hand, has lots of case capacity to help push the 160gr-175 stuff along, but can't be reasonably downloaded enough to keep the lighter deer-oriented bullets below 2800fps.
280 splits the difference between 7mm08 and 7mm Mag quite nicely. It's a very well balanced chambering that handles 120gr-140gr range and the 160gr-175gr range bullets equally well.
280 splits the difference between 7mm08 and 7mm Mag quite nicely. It's a very well balanced chambering that handles 120gr-140gr range and the 160gr-175gr range bullets equally well.
Bwana John
Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2004
- Messages
- 2,960
7mm X 57mm Mauser has the highest "cool factor" 
(and might be the most available in Europe)
(and might be the most available in Europe)
Jim Watson
Member
Are you here for a long time?
If so, get a 7mm Remington Magnum, it is nearly as good as a .30-06.
A friend has had good success with .280 Remington but it and the 7mm-08 are not as well distributed as the Magnum. Neither is 7mm Mauser and it is lightly loaded in the USA.
If you will return to Austria, look at a 7x64. Ammunition is somewhat available here and should be fairly common at home.
If so, get a 7mm Remington Magnum, it is nearly as good as a .30-06.
A friend has had good success with .280 Remington but it and the 7mm-08 are not as well distributed as the Magnum. Neither is 7mm Mauser and it is lightly loaded in the USA.
If you will return to Austria, look at a 7x64. Ammunition is somewhat available here and should be fairly common at home.
Otherguy Overby
member
If you are worried 7mm-08 isn't enough, why then move to an intermediate load like 7mm Mag? Just step up to 7mm STW? 
BCHunter
Member
7X64 Brenneke
If in Europe try the 7X64 Brenneke. Readily available there in many makes of rifles, has the ballistics similar to the 280 Remington, actually slightly more case volume, and has a good selection of ammo.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/7x64_Brenneke.htm
If in Europe try the 7X64 Brenneke. Readily available there in many makes of rifles, has the ballistics similar to the 280 Remington, actually slightly more case volume, and has a good selection of ammo.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/7x64_Brenneke.htm
bigcim
Member
what about the 7mm wsm has a flatter trajectory then the rem mag and the wheatherby and more energy
desertplinker
Member
OK as long as were having fun with this... 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum. Of course finding ammo is most definitely going to be an issue!I actually own both a 7mm mag and a 7mm RUM. I can honestly say that I wouldn't have purchased the RUM had it not been a "deal". The 7mm Rem Mag is truly one of the most versatile cartridges on the planet. Easily found on any gun shop shelf. Available in a staggering variety of loadings. Available with any powder charge and bullet you may like. It has crossed the manufacturer line and can be found in production by nearly any company who produces ammunition. It is accurate and reliable. Heavy sized game not an issue. For whitetails and smaller, stay to the lightest loadings you can find. Meat damage can be an issue.
Ok thx for your answers, I will go to a gunstore tomorow and I'll compare the prices.
The 7mm rum sounds interesting but what about the recoil. The 7mm rilfe will buy my first rilfe but I have shot with an winchester model 70 in 30-06 a few times and I can handel the recoil. I have also shot 3 times with an 12 gauge remington 870.
The 7mm rum sounds interesting but what about the recoil. The 7mm rilfe will buy my first rilfe but I have shot with an winchester model 70 in 30-06 a few times and I can handel the recoil. I have also shot 3 times with an 12 gauge remington 870.
desertplinker
Member
The Sako 75 Stainless Synthetic in 7 RUM is a pretty heavy shoulder hammer. I recently replaced the recoil pad with a limbsaver though and have yet to try it out. I'm hoping for some reduction. Honestly in all hunting scenarios I cannot remember recoil from the shot. Usually with your heart pumping like a jackhammer you probably wont feel the recoil or even hear the shot.
An 870 in synthetic stocked shotguns may compare. Typically most felt recoil is observed is during sight-in sessions from a bench. The difference in shotgun shooting, your whole upper body can serve as a pivot to absorb recoil. In bench rifle shooting (and worse, prone) the recoil is transmitted directly to the shoulder. I would say it certainly isn't a take it to the range for a day of plinking rifle. The 30-06 is more of a pussycat compared to the RUM. The recoil is fast and firm compared to a slower paced push by the '06.
The biggest downside to the 7mm RUM loadings has been the lack of acceptance by other manufacturers. Right now rounds are primarily available just from Remington. The excellent sirocco bullet is available and has proven sub MOA in my gun. In addition it has good penetration and expansion while delivering a lot of punch downrange. Obviously if you're a handloader then your possibilities widen substantially.
In regular 7mm Rem Mag you can choose from a dramatically larger selection. I have had good luck with Winchester's ballistic supreme silvertips. Generally it will turn the vitals on large game to pate with a well placed shot.
Ballistically in comparison the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner (STW) is almost exactly the same. The 7mm WSM is the stillborn of the WSM line. It doesn't provide any advantage other than a shorter action over a regular 7mm Rem Mag.
Have you considered where you will get ammo in Austria? I'm wondering what the availability might be like for these new calibers?
An 870 in synthetic stocked shotguns may compare. Typically most felt recoil is observed is during sight-in sessions from a bench. The difference in shotgun shooting, your whole upper body can serve as a pivot to absorb recoil. In bench rifle shooting (and worse, prone) the recoil is transmitted directly to the shoulder. I would say it certainly isn't a take it to the range for a day of plinking rifle. The 30-06 is more of a pussycat compared to the RUM. The recoil is fast and firm compared to a slower paced push by the '06.
The biggest downside to the 7mm RUM loadings has been the lack of acceptance by other manufacturers. Right now rounds are primarily available just from Remington. The excellent sirocco bullet is available and has proven sub MOA in my gun. In addition it has good penetration and expansion while delivering a lot of punch downrange. Obviously if you're a handloader then your possibilities widen substantially.
In regular 7mm Rem Mag you can choose from a dramatically larger selection. I have had good luck with Winchester's ballistic supreme silvertips. Generally it will turn the vitals on large game to pate with a well placed shot.
Ballistically in comparison the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner (STW) is almost exactly the same. The 7mm WSM is the stillborn of the WSM line. It doesn't provide any advantage other than a shorter action over a regular 7mm Rem Mag.
Have you considered where you will get ammo in Austria? I'm wondering what the availability might be like for these new calibers?
Last edited:
rangerruck
Member
buy the cheapest, 140 grn, soft points, go to the range , test them out. make sure you have bought about 4 or five diff brands. test them all. A 140 grn osftpoint will put down any deer or elk in N. America, unless he is superdeer.
MachIVshooter
Member
OK
In the US, the 7mm Rem Mag will be the most widely available and is plenty powerful for all but the large bears. Recoil is slightly more than a .30-06.
.280 is a great round, but is a handloaders cartridge-great capability, but not a lot of options in factory ammo. Performance is nearly identicle to the 7x64 Brenneke. Recoil is nearly equal to the .30-06
7mm WSM or 7mm RSAUM split the difference between .280 and 7mm RM (and there ain't a whole lot between the two). The major point of appeal is the availablity in short action rifles of which varients are not offered in 7mm RM/WM/RUM/.280 and still having more power than the 7mm-08 or 7x57. Recoil on par with .30-06
7mm Weatherby mag is virtually identicle to 7mm RM. It preceded the RM and was pretty much killed when the RM was introduced.
7x57 and 7mm-08 are nearly identicle in performance and will cleanly take deer and elk with decent shot placement at reasonable ranges. Recoil is mild, making these popular for the recoil sensitive shooter (often females, youths or folks who've sustained shoulder injuries).
7mm STW and 7mm RUM are the class leaders and are generally overpowered except where extreme long range is concerned. They also tend to push the lighter bullets too fast for reliable performance. These two are borderline overbore; The large powder capacity and high pressures will accelerate barrel and chamber wear compared to the more "normal" 7mm rounds. Recoil from either of these two is heavy.
Any will suit you, but my vote is for 7mm Rem Mag.
@desertplinker I don't know anything about the availability of the new calibers, but I will do some investigations at my local gun store. But I think will try to find an good rilfe in 7mm remington mag. the 7mm reg mag catridges are quite cheep.
ps: which factory loads in 7mm rem mag would you recomend for deer and elk?
ps: which factory loads in 7mm rem mag would you recomend for deer and elk?
desertplinker
Member
Good call! You'll definitely be happy with the regular 7mm Rem Mag.
The 150gr. loading of Winchester Ballistic Supreme Silvertip has been an absolute knockout on whitetails and muleys. The five deer i've harvested with that loading have all been immediate kills. 3 were no step, as if lightning had hit them. The 220lb muley last year ran 36 paces, he spooked as I was getting on target. The 5th deer did a complete backfilp and went about 50 yards, he was actually relatively small and had a small exit wound. I would guess poor to no expansion on that shot. That shot was a miniscule 42 yards though.
The hardest part of this is going to be ammunition selection. These days the bullets out there are simply amazing. The Nosler partition bullet is a true classic and available from Federal. Federal also has the Barnes Triple Shock and Bear Claw. I've read amazing things about both.
My 7 Mag is a semi custom gun. It is an Interarms Mark X action, Douglas premium barrel, in a 1970s Rienhart Fajen black walnut stock. I have topped it with Leupold rings and a Leupold Vari-X III 3.5x10x50mm scope. The gun was originally assembled by my great grandfather for me. I am currently working on a refinish job and am redoing the glass bedding.
Your best bet of load will obviously boil down to what rifle you choose. Different rifles are going to have their own preferences for ammo. So what rifle are you thinking of going with?
The 150gr. loading of Winchester Ballistic Supreme Silvertip has been an absolute knockout on whitetails and muleys. The five deer i've harvested with that loading have all been immediate kills. 3 were no step, as if lightning had hit them. The 220lb muley last year ran 36 paces, he spooked as I was getting on target. The 5th deer did a complete backfilp and went about 50 yards, he was actually relatively small and had a small exit wound. I would guess poor to no expansion on that shot. That shot was a miniscule 42 yards though.
The hardest part of this is going to be ammunition selection. These days the bullets out there are simply amazing. The Nosler partition bullet is a true classic and available from Federal. Federal also has the Barnes Triple Shock and Bear Claw. I've read amazing things about both.
My 7 Mag is a semi custom gun. It is an Interarms Mark X action, Douglas premium barrel, in a 1970s Rienhart Fajen black walnut stock. I have topped it with Leupold rings and a Leupold Vari-X III 3.5x10x50mm scope. The gun was originally assembled by my great grandfather for me. I am currently working on a refinish job and am redoing the glass bedding.
Your best bet of load will obviously boil down to what rifle you choose. Different rifles are going to have their own preferences for ammo. So what rifle are you thinking of going with?
OldSchooler
Member
Even in Austria you should be able to find a 7mm Mag and some ammo for it. But, someone mentioned the Eurpoean calibers. Why not stick close to home with something that is common in your own back yard?
bang_bang
Member
I've got a Winchester Model 70 chambered in 7mm Rem Mag and love it. I'm a huge 7mm Mag fan, even pursuaded several friends to get one for deer season. The recoil only becomes a problem in warm weather, speaking that I'm only 5'6" and 165lbs. I like a harder hitting bullet so I lean more on the 175 Power Point in the Winchester ammo section. They are really a great deer gun, maybe a little much for thicker wooded areas, but you could definately make the shots in close quarters (like shooting through forks in a tree). I've never shot an elk but would love to travel to Colorado for some elk and mule deer.
As for the costs for shells in Europe, no clue. In the U.S. they average around $21 for a box of 175-grain Power Points, actually designed for larger game such as bear, elk, and like animals. For deer, the bullet will turn them for a flip and dosen't tear up as much meat as a ballistic tip. Although I'm trying out Winchester Surpreme ballistic tips this year, I'd go with the Power Points. That way you wouldn't have to worry about the differences in bullet drop between a bullets if your a little too focused on the trophy.
The only other bullet I've tried is the 175-grain Remington Corelokt Soft Point. I wasn't impressed with its knockdown power at all and had to track several deer over some pretty steep hills. I don't like to walk farther than I have to, last year I only had 1 deer run after I had shot it, and it didn't go any farther than 30 yards before expiring. The other 3, including a 210lbs+ 12 point buck and a very large doe, dropped at the crack of the gun. I'm sure just about any other hunter or shooter with a 7mm Mag could tell you that they're satisfied beyond expectations with their rifle, no matter the make. Just my 2 cents worth.
As for the costs for shells in Europe, no clue. In the U.S. they average around $21 for a box of 175-grain Power Points, actually designed for larger game such as bear, elk, and like animals. For deer, the bullet will turn them for a flip and dosen't tear up as much meat as a ballistic tip. Although I'm trying out Winchester Surpreme ballistic tips this year, I'd go with the Power Points. That way you wouldn't have to worry about the differences in bullet drop between a bullets if your a little too focused on the trophy.
The only other bullet I've tried is the 175-grain Remington Corelokt Soft Point. I wasn't impressed with its knockdown power at all and had to track several deer over some pretty steep hills. I don't like to walk farther than I have to, last year I only had 1 deer run after I had shot it, and it didn't go any farther than 30 yards before expiring. The other 3, including a 210lbs+ 12 point buck and a very large doe, dropped at the crack of the gun. I'm sure just about any other hunter or shooter with a 7mm Mag could tell you that they're satisfied beyond expectations with their rifle, no matter the make. Just my 2 cents worth.
HankB
Member
So what was wrong with the .30-06 that you want to buy a 7mm?agent00 said:
For deer and elk, ANY of the 7mm cartridges mentioned (and a few besides) will do fine . . . 7x57, 7mm-08, 280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Weatherby, 7mm STW, 7mm RUM . . . with an appropriate load and good shot placement, the game won't know the difference.
If I HAD to step down in caliber from a .30/06, in the USA I'd go with a 7mm Remington, simply because of ammo availability. In Austria . . . well, I'd visit some local gun shops (ARE there gun shops in Austria?) and see what ammo was most available.
desertplinker
Member
7mag a step down over .30-06?? Ballistically, no. Especially after 250 yards. Up to 250 they are fairly close I guess. The 7mm mag is far flatter and packs more energy for equal bullet weights.
I am curious what the availability would be like in Austria though. I would guess the metric system calibers would prevail. Americans sure do like their .30 cals!
I am curious what the availability would be like in Austria though. I would guess the metric system calibers would prevail. Americans sure do like their .30 cals!
@ HankB There is nothing wrong with the 30-06, for my first hunting rifle I would try something else.
I have done some investigations at my local gun store and I can find some good loads for the 7mm reg mag. They would also offer an styr mannlich pro hunter rifle in 7mm wsm. I like that rifle but it isn't available in 7mm reg mag. What do you think about the 7 wsm?
I have done some investigations at my local gun store and I can find some good loads for the 7mm reg mag. They would also offer an styr mannlich pro hunter rifle in 7mm wsm. I like that rifle but it isn't available in 7mm reg mag.
What do you think about the 7 wsm?bigcim
Member
its a flatter trajectory the 7 rem but people had questioned how long that caliber will be around
desertplinker
Member
If I had to guess the .270 and .300 WSM's are here to stay. The market reception for 7mm WSM has seemingly been pretty tepid. Going back to the commonality of loadings and availability, I might be a little nervous. All that said, it is a nice round. You definitely can find loadings that will work for the hunting you're planning. You may just need to stock up when you find good availability. Also you're probably looking at Winchester ammo exclusively for the interim term.
You definitely can find loadings that will work for the hunting you're planning. You may just need to stock up when you find good availability. Also you're probably looking at Winchester ammo exclusively for the interim term.browningguy
Member
Got to agree with the 7x64, I've got it and a 7x57, the S&B 173 SPCE load is devastating in both cartridges. I know, it's heavy and only goes 2600 fps or so but man does it put the deer down quick.
- Status
