Which AR stripped lower for an AR neophyte? Anderson? Spike? Ruger? F1?

[herrwalther]

Anderson lowers are going to be the cheapest. If you are stockpiling in anticipation of the law taking effect, Anderson are going to be the easiest to get most of the time. My local gun store stocks Andersons on the shelf and just recently removed his "limit three per customer" rule.

 

[TonyAngel]

Over the course of the years that I've been messing with ARs, I've assembled more than most. I've sort of developed the attitude that a lower is a lower. The only thing that I ensure is that it's cut from a 7075 forging. There was a time when 6061 lowers were out there.

Still, the more expensive lowers have small added features that the Andersons don't or didn't have, like the chamfered magwell. I don't own a bunch of ARs. I only have a few that I shoot a lot and when I help a friend assemble a rifle, they usually spring the extra 20 or 30 for something nice. I like the integrated oversized trigger guards and chamfered magwells. I also like the roll marks on the Spikes. I also like the Aero M4E1 lowers, but they don't play well with BAD levers if that is something you use.

If you're buying one, I'd say treat yourself to something nice. If you're buying 10, get the Andersons. I've never regretted getting something nice.

 

[valnar]

For someone who will only buy one or two, I'd prefer quality over quantity. Who is "best", if that can be objectively stated?

My only AR15 is a PWS MK116 piston but perhaps it's time to pick up a regular one.

 

[Styx]

For someone who will only buy one or two, I'd prefer quality over quantity. Who is "best", if that can be objectively stated?

My only AR15 is a PWS MK116 piston but perhaps it's time to pick up a regular one.

Yes, it can. They all are made out of the same material, have the same critical dimensions, and do the same thing function wise. People are paying hundreds more for a rollmark and small cosmetic changes.

 

[valnar]

It appears on the previous page that there are some machining differences between them though. I'm willing to pay for something that isn't "rough".

 

[Styx]

Over the course of the years that I've been messing with ARs, I've assembled more than most. I've sort of developed the attitude that a lower is a lower. The only thing that I ensure is that it's cut from a 7075 forging. There was a time when 6061 lowers were out there.

Still, the more expensive lowers have small added features that the Andersons don't or didn't have, like the chamfered magwell. I don't own a bunch of ARs. I only have a few that I shoot a lot and when I help a friend assemble a rifle, they usually spring the extra 20 or 30 for something nice. I like the integrated oversized trigger guards and chamfered magwells. I also like the roll marks on the Spikes. I also like the Aero M4E1 lowers, but they don't play well with BAD levers if that is something you use.

If you're buying one, I'd say treat yourself to something nice. If you're buying 10, get the Andersons. I've never regretted getting something nice.

Aero makes Spike's lower receivers. Most of these other high priced stripped lowers that people are paying over $120 or more for are manufactured by another company, and then they upcharge. They don't make their own receivers.

 

[Styx]

It appears on the previous page that there are some machining differences between them though. I'm willing to pay for something that isn't "rough".

The only post that mentioned machining and used the word "rough" was Skylerbone's in post #46.

In that post, he posted several pictures of expensive and inexpensive lower receivers. He then states that to NOT assume that an Anderson or less expensive lower is "rough" or "sloppy" because the tolerances are interchangeable with more expensive lowers. He states that the expensive and inexpensive receivers all had tight tolerances and function perfectly fine.

Each is 6-Series aluminum, each functions perfectly fine. I was assured by a much smarter member than me that AR parts interchange because of tight tolerances, not “thanks to” sloppy ones. It will either be within tolerances and work, or it will not.

Don't assume Anderson innards are cobb rough or that Aero machines them better than anyone. If you’re buying for speculation, buy in bulk. If you’re buying for want, buy what you want. Nearly all are machined to similar shape, perhaps below is an example of a variation less common these days.

I agree with his post and that has been my experience. The tolerances and critical dimensions that matter are the same. The aluminum used is the same. An AR with a $150 lower isn't going to function or shoot better or be more accurate than a $45 Anderson grated that both are within spec. What you are usually paying extra for is brand names, cosmetic features, and roll markets.

Aero makes a milspec lower receiver that's similar to an Anderson, and they have their M4E1 lowers. I am willing to pay a little more for the M4E1's threaded roll and detent pins that make assemblely a lot easier/faster. I also like the flared magwell and they cosmetic look. With that said, I realize that I am not gaining anything when it comes to reliability, longevity, robustness, etc. My Areo lower is going to do the exact same thing and function just as well as my Anderson while being fired and in use.

 

[valnar]

Sigh. I’m not talking about tolerances. If one is finished better then it is worth my money. If it’s not worth your money, that’s your perogative.

 

[Styx]

Sigh. I’m not talking about tolerances. If one is finished better then it is worth my money. If it’s not worth your money, that’s your perogative.

It appears on the previous page that there are some machining differences between them though. I'm willing to pay for something that isn't "rough".

My mistake. The context of your post eluded to you talking about tolerances and "machining" differences being "rough" on one and not the other as opposed to talking about the finish.







The anodized finishes on my examples of Andersons, Aero, Spikes, and PSA lowers aren't much different. I have one BCM AR15, but I have not directly compared the finishes.

Lastly, I never stated or eluded to there being a problem with you spending more money on a lower that had better features, roll marks, etc. Matter of fact, I stated I do just that when I buy Aero lowers over Anderson. I prefer Aero lowers above all others I have experience with.

 

[valnar]

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Why are you replying?

 

[InTheSwamp]

PSA is great. Aero enhanced removes the nuisance of roll pins, and comes with hex bolts. The tension spring is cool too.

 

[Varminterror]

Something of note: different lowers absolutely do draw different resale value to their respective rifles once built.

I’ve been arbitraging AR market values based, especially leveraging brand preference in the market, for most of the last 25yrs. Quite literally, I’ve bought (or taken as value on new builds) and resold a few dozen home build AR’s on cheap lowers, creating increased value simply by dropping them into a “more respected” lower and reselling the cheap lowers as “stripped, like new”. It’s ridiculously easy to take a decent build out of a “Poverty Pony” and stick it into an Aero and net $100 to its value, with about 30min worth of work. Is it a better rifle? Not a chance. Is it different in any functional or palpable way? Nope. Just a different maker’s mark… and a different price point.

And a lot of first-time AR buyers/builders DO end up selling their first when they upgrade to something which better suits their desires - after that first rifle helps them define what those desires might be. Which is a better alternative than just sticking it in the back of the closet and never making use of it, which is also something which happens to a LOT of the AR’s built by first-time AR builders.

So that marketability of the marker’s mark does influence the calculus of which lower to choose. An extra $25 spent in the front end can net an extra $100+ in resale.

 

[Styx]

Something of note: different lowers absolutely do draw different resale value to their respective rifles once built.

I’ve been arbitraging AR market values based, especially leveraging brand preference in the market, for most of the last 25yrs. Quite literally, I’ve bought (or taken as value on new builds) and resold a few dozen home build AR’s on cheap lowers, creating increased value simply by dropping them into a “more respected” lower and reselling the cheap lowers as “stripped, like new”. It’s ridiculously easy to take a decent build out of a “Poverty Pony” and stick it into an Aero and net $100 to its value, with about 30min worth of work. Is it a better rifle? Not a chance. Is it different in any functional or palpable way? Nope. Just a different maker’s mark… and a different price point.

And a lot of first-time AR buyers/builders DO end up selling their first when they upgrade to something which better suits their desires - after that first rifle helps them define what those desires might be. Which is a better alternative than just sticking it in the back of the closet and never making use of it, which is also something which happens to a LOT of the AR’s built by first-time AR builders.

So that marketability of the marker’s mark does influence the calculus of which lower to choose. An extra $25 spent in the front end can net an extra $100+ in resale.

True and that's a good point if you plan on reselling. Colt and some beautique lowers have more resale value because there are usually less of them in the wild, and they are routinely out of stock especially during panic buying periods. One can get more than what they paid for one. Can't say I seen the same with Aero stripped lowers vs Anderson, but I will agree that a factory built Aero lower will have a higher resale value vs a factory built Anderson.

For an inexpensive and reliable budget assembly that's going to be a truck like gun, well used, not babied, and you won't get attached to, Anderson is a great option. You can put the savings into and focus on the trigger, bolt, barrel, and charging handle, and have a rifle that's proforms just as well as it's more expensive brethren.

If the initial extra cost isn't an issue, and resale value, looks, and extra features are important, then the other options are better...

There are really no wrong answers.

 

[mjsdwash]

I've owned a couple of Andersons, and some were perfect, and some had the buffer detent and bolt release holes drilled after anodizing. I have no idea why, and while its not a problem, it did stand out. Of course fully assembled you would never know.

Second, Anderson is the only company I've seen that sometimes threads their grip screw hole fully, and sometimes doesn't. This is not an issue if you use the 3/4 military screw, but can be if you use the longer screws that came with Magpul stuff.

I have never seen on dimensionally off, finish is good and they're overall as good as any of the others I've used.
I bought a few for $32 each during the Trump administration.

I bought a Windham Bushmaster receiver almost 20 years ago for the price of 7 of those Andersons. Cant see any difference. Andersons are Forged 70-75 T-whatever just like everyone else. They are the OEM for some name brands as well.

As far as not wanting more than two, you may be right. But PCC's are fun, as are .22 conversions.

On the subject of resale value, that's a bad thought perspective with AR's.
They only have resale value of meaning during panics, and fancy names don't go as far during panics. Otherwise, its just a used gun and your not getting you money back anyway.

 

[Varminterror]

They only have resale value of meaning during panics

I’ve sold - literally - hundreds of AR’s, and arbitraged half again as many, and rebuilt twice again as many in the last 24-25yrs.

Cut out maybe 3-4 accumulative years of 6-8month spans where the margins were too thin, but for the rest of that time, this statement has been absolutely false.

Over 3,000 Americans which will buy a firearm are born every. single. day. and the AR-15 is one of the highest selling designs in the world. This ain’t Wall Street, it doesn’t shut down on bankers’ hours - the AR market is always trading.

Plus - to be quite blunt - even if this claim did have any merit, out of the last 18yrs since the ban ended, we’ve had more years of “panic” than without. We came out of the Federal AWB right on the heels of 9/11, full swing on the war on terror, nation thought we’d have another ban, ramped after 2005’s sunset to the Great Recession/housing market global crisis by 2008, rode that PLUS election of a democratic president for a couple years to Sandy Hook in 2012 - also coincidental to democratic RE-election and of course, Feinstein’s proposed Federal AWB in 2013… which didn’t really slow down with Hillary running in 2016, and even though she didn’t win, the proposals - including Republican Presidental Order to ban bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting in 2017, dovetailing right up to the 2019 Covid Pandemic, 2020 democratic presidential victory (including the viral video threatening a union worker), Beto’s BS along the way, Ukrainian war…

We’ve had MASSIVE manufacturing growth, built on the back of OPPORTUNITY FOR PROFIT! We’ve seen great competition in low end AR’s which have kept low end prices low (Walmart), and extreme competition evolving at the high price points against the top as well (Ferrari) - but if a guy couldn’t make resell value on an AR in the last ~20yrs, it’s likely because they were a sucker who paid too much, or were a sucker who accepted a price below value because they didn’t know how to market.

 

[Styx]

I’ve sold - literally - hundreds of AR’s, and arbitraged half again as many, and rebuilt twice again as many in the last 24-25yrs.

Cut out maybe 3-4 accumulative years of 6-8month spans where the margins were too thin, but for the rest of that time, this statement has been absolutely false.

Over 3,000 Americans which will buy a firearm are born every. single. day. and the AR-15 is one of the highest selling designs in the world. This ain’t Wall Street, it doesn’t shut down on bankers’ hours - the AR market is always trading.

Plus - to be quite blunt - even if this claim did have any merit, out of the last 18yrs since the ban ended, we’ve had more years of “panic” than without. We came out of the Federal AWB right on the heels of 9/11, full swing on the war on terror, nation thought we’d have another ban, ramped after 2005’s sunset to the Great Recession/housing market global crisis by 2008, rode that PLUS election of a democratic president for a couple years to Sandy Hook in 2012 - also coincidental to democratic RE-election and of course, Feinstein’s proposed Federal AWB in 2013… which didn’t really slow down with Hillary running in 2016, and even though she didn’t win, the proposals - including Republican Presidental Order to ban bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting in 2017, dovetailing right up to the 2019 Covid Pandemic, 2020 democratic presidential victory (including the viral video threatening a union worker), Beto’s BS along the way, Ukrainian war…

We’ve had MASSIVE manufacturing growth, built on the back of OPPORTUNITY FOR PROFIT! We’ve seen great competition in low end AR’s which have kept low end prices low (Walmart), and extreme competition evolving at the high price points against the top as well (Ferrari) - but if a guy couldn’t make resell value on an AR in the last ~20yrs, it’s likely because they were a sucker who paid too much, or were a sucker who accepted a price below value because they didn’t know how to market.

You both are kind of right. I am on ARFCOM market place which is huge and very active. I have brought and sold there and other places including AKFiles which is also has a big rifles of all platforms following. I also watch ArmsList in my area.

They will pay a premium for Colt and other parts if and when they can't be purchased elsewhere at retail or during panic buying. I usually see and Frankenstein and Gucci factory AR15s sell for less than people put into it. Colts are mostly what I will see people pay over MSRP to buy if supply is low or nonexistent.

For Gucci and beautique AR15s, you usually have a much better chance of recouping what you put into it or making a profit by stripping it down and parting the components out vs selling the entire rifle out right.... I don't know what things look like in the gun shop and gun show scene, but I have a pretty good idea about the online market.

 

[Varminterror]

Arfcom is a clap factory.

 

[Styx]

Arfcom is a clap factory.

The general forums part, yes. The market place, no. Most of the components, rifles, and accessories that are sold there are mid tier to top end as most of those guys are very particular when it comes to ARs. The market place is also well managed, and has a Ebay like rating system.

When I want to build a budget AR using "higher end" parts that retail for more than I want to spend, I buy used from there and usually get a good deal.

 

[Varminterror]

When I want to build a budget AR using "higher end" parts that retail for more than I want to spend, I buy used from there and usually get a good deal.

Which is directly contraindicated to how to retain resale value. Get the point yet?

The best way to retain resale value on “my first AR” parts and rifles is to NOT wade neck deep into a crowd full of LiSteRs.

 

[Styx]

Which is directly contraindicated to how to retain resale value. Get the point yet?

The best way to retain resale value on “my first AR” parts and rifles is to NOT wade neck deep into a crowd full of LiSteRs.

No, you cherrypicked out one sentence out from two post. Whether someone recouped their money on an AR all depends. It depends on the brend (brands that the military and special forces use are usually more desirable) and supply and demand.

I can get a good deal, for example, on an used Geissele rail if that rail is still readily available for sale. I can buy a one in great condition for less than retail price. Now if everyone sold out for whatever reason and it's a desires item, then I am not going to get a good deal. It can be sold at or above retail at that point.

People who buy top end quality parts typically know the market, and how much stuff should cost. They aren't going to over pay when they can find the product used below retail or at retail. They aren't going to play close to retail price for your used AR15 either. Unless the market is dried up.

 

[Varminterror]

Whether someone recouped their money on an AR all depends.

Recouping money on new purchases is a suckers game. Retaining resale value isn’t the same thing as recouping retail prices on rifles or parts. Can’t really move the goalpost and be proud of yourself here.

But open your eyes, man… the reasons you like BUYING stuff somewhere are typically key indicators of reasons you won’t like SELLING in the same place.

Hint - some of us find great deals on arfcom and turn profits on them as a matter of daily business…

 

[Styx]

Recouping money on new purchases is a suckers game. Retaining resale value isn’t the same thing as recouping retail prices on rifles or parts. Can’t really move the goalpost and be proud of yourself here.

It is an extention of the same thing. You have to have a baseline to be able to know whether something is retaining it's value or not. I have purchased many rifles NIB rifles at retail that went up in value. I have purchased dozens of firearms NIB, and sold them for more than what I paid online and in face to face sales via ArmsList, so I am not sure what you are talking about. Whether you can recoup money all depends on supply and demand. Whether an firearm retains it's value also depends on supply and demand.

During the middle of the pandemic, I put $3000+ buying out all of the last of Ballistic Advantage's limited supply 14.7" middy barrels that everyone wanted and used a 10% coupon. I put it on my credit card, and sold them for a $60 each profit on ARFCOM's forum.

But open your eyes, man… the reasons you like BUYING stuff somewhere are typically key indicators of reasons you won’t like SELLING in the same place.

Hint - some of us find great deals on arfcom and turn profits on them as a matter of daily business…

As I stated repeatedly, I have brought and sold on gun forums, Gunbroker, and ArmsList. I like buying AND selling on all three platforms. Sometimes I get a deal, sometimes I do not. Some items sell for a profit, and some don't. Sometimes some people don't get a good deal, but they don't have any other options and they REALLY want that particular item. What someone is willing to pay all depends on what the particular item is.

I am not even sure what you're taking issue with anymore. You made a good point in your OP that some lowers will retain more of it's value over others. I agreed with you. The only way you can tell if something retained it's value or not is to compare it to its market value when it was purchased brand new. I simply gave the caveat that you and @mjsdwash both had a point. Some AR15 models aren't going to hold their value, but some will depending on the market at the time, e.i., (panic buying shortages).

 

[TonyAngel]

Aero makes Spike's lower receivers. Most of these other high priced stripped lowers that people are paying over $120 or more for are manufactured by another company, and then they upcharge. They don't make their own receivers.

I don't see anywhere in most post where I said that anyone made anything. All I said was that some higher priced lowers come with some amenities that some might desire. Yes, I am willing to pay more for a flared magwell, integrated trigger guard and even the roll mark if I find it appealing. Like I said, I don't have a bunch of ARs. I have 3 plus one in .22 and I spend a lot of time with the ones I have. I don't have any that have just been sitting in a safe doing nothing.

 

[Styx]

I don't see anywhere in most post where I said that anyone made anything. All I said was that some higher priced lowers come with some amenities that some might desire. Yes, I am willing to pay more for a flared magwell, integrated trigger guard and even the roll mark if I find it appealing. Like I said, I don't have a bunch of ARs. I have 3 plus one in .22 and I spend a lot of time with the ones I have. I don't have any that have just been sitting in a safe doing nothing.

No need to get defensive. I never stated you did say anything about that. I was adding that information as a FYI to show that most of these lowers are made by the same handful of companies.

I don't recall saying there was anything wrong with people wanting to pay extra to have flared magwell, integrated trigger guard, or even for the roll marks. I explicitly have stated that's what people are paying extra for, and they generally aren't really getting any extra benefits in durability or quality. I even stated in several of my post I prefer Aero M4E1 lowers for their extra features.

I know you didn't say anything about this, but as a FYI, Anderson sell lowers with the integrated trigger gaurd as well.. I believe Spikes also sells lowers with and without the integrated trigger gaurd also. I don't recall there being any price differences for that feature. Anderson also sells "stealth" that do not have their roll marks on them.

 

[Styx]