Which AR?

[BlayGlock]

I think that I am going to begin saving up for an AR. Up to this point I have not had one, and I do not know anything about them being more of a pistol guy.

Which company and model should I be looking at. Money is not an issue, I will save up and buy the best. I just want something that is a good shooter that is fairly easy to maintain.

What do you guys like?

 

[Tirod]

First, about anything in the $1,100 range will get a decent AR. Shop it, some gun dealers are selling at high prices to newbs with inflated stories of how good the gun is. Olympic dealers have been known to do that, and the extended list of makers best avoided would include Vulcan and Hesse.

A baseline AR would be the CMMG Bargain Bins at $599. These are various makes put together with parts that are supposed to be cosmetic seconds, like a scratch on the finish of a lower. Often new owners can't even find the scratch, likely because it's no worse than one on the shelf at a gunstore nicked up from customer's handling it.

On the top end of the scale would be Noveske, LMT, Bravo Company, and others that some would find unacceptable. That's because their is NO standard for what is "Best." What happens then is a long discussion about what constitutes a "Best" feature or material, and if military specification is used, then how to interpret that.

You can have a better rifle that is completely non - milspec, or one that is junk. It just depends on what the actual feature is and whether it fits the way you need to use it. A cold hammer forged barrel with nitride treatment could be more accurate and longer lasting than a button rifled chrome lined one, but it's not milspec. A stainless heavy precision barrel could shoot 1/4 MOA, but it's not milspec.

There is no best, there is what the buyer wants that gets the job done most efficiently for the money. Good luck with that - it's a constantly moving target. Buy the best quality you can, and you won't likely be disappointed.

One thing to keep in mind with using an AR is that they are supposed to be lubricated generously, as the military specifies in the TM. Too many new owners get no manual with the rifle, run them dry, and have troubles during the first range session shooting them with low powered ammo out of surplus magazines. Quality magazines and ammo will prevent the two most common problems with AR's, and generously lubricating them is the military standard.

 

[BlayGlock]

Thank you for the information that is very helpful.

I guess I should say this. I am looking for an failry accurate and dependable rifle. It will not be used in competition, just target shooting for fun. I will probably try and take a carbine class at Tac Pro or Magpul with it just to get a good foundation for using one. I would be happy with 2" groups at 100 yards. I may use this occasionally to shoot at hogs if I get a chance.

 

[VegasAR15]

Just sit down and really decide what you want before you go and buy one. If you are planning on mounting an optic, make sure you get a flat top. My first AR was very basic with a fixed carry handle. After a while I decided that I wanted to mount an optic and have other accessories so I went and bought the Smith and Wesson M&P15T, which I have been very happy with. But the next rifle I get I am going to build piece by piece myself, so that I can get exactly what I want. So just make sure you research everything that you may want to eventually do with it.

 

[Mags]

For a first AR steer clear of the Piston train. If you have the cash just build it yourself from Spike's and Bravo company parts. That way you can learn about the AR along the way and have an affordable top tier AR.

 

[deadeyedog270]

here are some vids on how to Build An AR-15 if you are going that route http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/guntechdetail/How_to_Build_An_AR-15_Video

 

[BlayGlock]

For a first AR steer clear of the Piston train

Please educate me as I have no idea what this is? Is it a gas piston system kind of like what is in an AK-47?

 

[Mags]

Yes. Direct Impingement is the way to go that is the way it has been for over 50 years.

 

[Justin]

It sounds like you're looking for an acceptably accurate defensive carbine. Consider looking at the rifles from CMMG, Rock River, Armalite, S&W, or possibly Sabre Defense.

I've had good luck with a Rock River Elite CAR A4.

The piston-driven guns aren't really worth considering for the average shooter, or even someone who fires several thousand rounds a year. Unless you're planning to go literally thousands of rounds between cleaning sessions and shooting the gun until the barrel is glowing, there's no point in the additional cost.

 

[Justin]

Please educate me as I have no idea what this is? Is it a gas piston system kind of like what is in an AK-47?

Yes. In the last couple of years it's become fashionable to shove an AK-esque piston-driven operating system into AR-pattern rifles, rather than using the direct impingement system that the gun was designed around.

The theory goes that the piston-driven guns should be more reliable because they don't vent hot gasses and carbon fouling into the chamber of the rifle like the direct impingement system.

In reality, for the vast majority of people, the piston-driven systems are really nothing more than an expensive gimmick, and while it can be debated that piston-driven guns are more reliable at the margins, that claimed reliability comes at the cost of reduced accuracy and possibly a stouter recoil impulse.

 

[BlayGlock]

Thanks, this is really helpful. It seems that the direct impingement rifles are a little cheaper as well.

While I am on the topic what about something like the CX4 9mm. I reload lots of 9mm anyway. Would one of these or an AR in 9mm be better for what I am wanting or are they problematic?

 

[Justin]

Pistol caliber carbines will reach to 100 yards much easier than a handgun will, but they are much less powerful than a proper rifle.

If you don't ever plan on shooting at rifle distances (out to, say, 400 yards) a pistol caliber carbine might be ok. You'll also give up the ability to hunt with it, as it's generally assumed that pistol cartridges like 9mm don't have enough power to make an ethical kill on a game animal.

Ammunition will certainly be cheaper, though.

 

[Birddog1911]

There is so much out there offered, the gentleman above who said sit down and decide just what you want gave good advice. Building them is easy, particularly with the "rifle kits" offered these days. You can buy whatever lower receiver you want stripped, then order a rifle kit. These most often come with the lower parts kit, a stock, and a barreled upper receiver that is already properly headspaced for you.

While they are not considered by many to be top tier, I think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Double Star Arms, Del-Ton, CMMG, or Rock River. I had a Double Star and enjoyed it. My neighbor bought a Del-Ton and so far is happy. Buying a good, but "lower tier" rifle will also allow you more money to outfit everything that you will want for it; mags, cleaning kit, case, poss. optics, and of course, ammunition.

 

[Zerodefect]

Colt, LMT, BCM.

 

[RP88]

I'll just copy-paste my opinion and leave it at that.

best quality for whole rifles:
-BCM
-Daniel Defense
-Colt
-Noveske
-LMT

best bang for the buck/quality and value for a decent price:
-S&W
-Stag
-Bushmaster (love/hate relationship around most AR worlds, but they do make a good product)

best bargains:
-CMMG bargain bin guns
-Del-Ton rifle kits

best uppers to build off of:
-BCM
-Daniel Defense
-CMMG

Other makers that make good parts, accessories, and rifles worth mentioning:
-RRA, Armalite, Sabre, YHM, Magpul, White Oak, Charles Daly, Spike's Tactical, Double Star, DSA, Midwest Industries, Troy, Larue, VLTOR, DPMS...more I can't remember

best stripped lowers:
-any forged or billeted, in-spec, anodized and properly fit lower. There are dozens to choose from

names to avoid:
-Model 1 (hit-or-miss)
-Olympic (overpriced hit-or-miss)
-Hess, Blackthorne, Vulcan (notoriously bad)
-Century Arms ARs (heavy, clunky, rebuilt from scrap piles)

point is, you have a lot to choose from, but it all depends on what you're trying to do with it.

 

[basicblur]

Well ain't nuttin' wrong with buying a Colt LE6920-just shop and you can find 'em for under $1300-don't overpay! You've got mil-spec (if that's all that important to you), and you've got the Colt name should you ever decide to sell it later.
I've got "identical" Colt and Rock River Arms-a RRA will run 'bout $300 cheaper than the Colt, but I'm sure somebody in here will point you towards "THE CHART" (make sure you stop and bow ) so you can compare features. 'Course, THE CHART is not 'zactly correct as some makers' arms can be had 'bout any way you want 'em-not reflected in THE CHART (don't forget to bow)!

This would be an excellent learning resource-bookmark, devour, and decide what's important for you AFA features/brands.

On the subjet of magazines (the AR's weakest point?), conventional wisdom seems to be the best plastic mags are MagPuls-the best metal mags are USGI made by either D&H (formerly Labelle) or NHMTG, but make sure the USGI metal mags have MagPul Gen III followers-some come with 'em-I had to replace all my OEM followers with the MagPul units.
This magazine thread might help you with prices/models?

I'm partial to PMAGs and D&H Black Teflon USGI with MagPul Gen III followers.

 

[BlayGlock]

Thanks for the info. I will stick with one in 5.56/.222 for now. I may add a 9mm one later.

basicblur thanks for the link. This has been very helpful

 

[Seattlefungus]

Somethings to consider. If you start with a decent AR15 16 in barrel with a 1/9 twist with a A4 flattop upper you won't be sorry. Some issues to consider. The .223/5.56 lower as a base allows you to change uppers for caliber changes from some pistol calibers, to 7.62X39. Many with just changing the upper, bolt & Mag. Rifle calibers above .270 require a larger AR10 style lower. Like Amalita AR10, or DPMS Panther. The pistol calibers are a little more problematic. Requiring a mag well insert, smaller hammer, buffer & some other tweaking. But 204 Ruger, 7.62X39 6MM 6.8 Spc just require the proper bolt and mag. There are other calibers too. The kind of shooting is important. 300 and under a 16" barrel 1/9 is a good shooter. Beyond that a faster twist and longer for heavier bullets are advisable. In Service rifle competition is a AR15 A2 20" is needed and a 1/8 twist a minimum. But if you plan just shooting 55g M193 type cheap and plentiful ammo. The 16" 1/9 is great. Check out local gun-clubs. Some offer rentals and try before you buy.

 

[WYcoyote]

You really need to define your new AR's mission to choose a configuration. You touched on this in your second post.
Pop can plinker?
Targets?
Long range targets?
Close range varmints?
Long range varmints?
Home defense?
No compromise battle rifle?
TEOTWAWKI survival weapon?
Any combination of the above?

Then you can choose parameters like barrel length and weight, gas tube length, stock type, caliber, optics and sighting options, reliability needs, all which will determine a price point.

 

[sarduy]

i would recommend a CMMG rifle lenght AR15 with a flaptop upper.

 

[grace2u]

This is something I'm working on right now. I'm wanting something for coyote/hogs/hit the fan. I think I'm leaning toward SW M&P's right now, but since I'm thinking mostly in terms of hunting, I've also thought Remington/BM or Ruger. My main question now is which layout is going to work best for me. I know I need a flattop. I want one that will shoot both 556/223, but I'm not sure about barrel length. I want the shortest that will accurately reach a yote at 200yards in the bean fields of West Tennessee.

 

[greyling22]

lots of good info posted so far.

something else to consider is what kind of AR you want. they come in 3 gas length systems, rifle, midlength, and carbine. from what I can tell, carbine is the most common (think M4) but midlength is the new hotness. supposed to be lower pressure and softer recoil while still being compact. and rifle is for the traditionalists.

barrels range from 16" lightweight to 20" bull. are you going to hunt from a truck and want the weight, or walk around and want the mobility? from what I can tell, most people using a decent ar and good ammo can get 1-2" groups with just about any barrel.

then, what kind of optic do you want? red dots range from 30-500 dollars. most serious AR guys end up with $300+ red dots. scopes range from $30-sky's the limit, but 200-300 buys really nice glass.

if you like the S&W, cdnn has a heck of a deal on them right now.

most AR's are chambered for 5.56. kind of like most revolvers are chambered for 357 instead of 38. it adds versatility and prevents ammo screw ups.

hope that helps some. there are about 8 zillion ways to put an AR together, and just as many opinions on the best. Ar's are like legos, the parts swap all around and you can build what's on the box or anything else your heart desires.

 

[APIT50]

If money is no issue get a 20" barrel Noveske

 

[Welding Rod]

Personally my favorite is an A2 rifle.

The current fad is M4 style carbines though so when questions about "AR15s" come up, responses frequently center around that particular variant.

Some guys swear by "milspec" everything, while personally I see no reason to tolerate a poor trigger pull on a privately owned gun.

Juat depends on what you are into.

My advise is if you like to shoot iron sights, get something with a decent sight radius and avoid carbine length gas systems. If you want a carbine length (16") barrel, I would consider one with a midlength gas system.

 

[grace2u]

@greyling...so, you're saying the 4-6" difference in barrel length won't have much affect on the grouping? I don't really 'hunt' I hike with a gun, so the lighter the better. The other problem I'm having is that I want the 556/223 AND a 308 so...looks like I'm saving up some money :^). Luckily, I've got a 10th anniversary coming up and I'm buying a ring she picks out and she's buying whatever I pick out...hehehe