Which brand of AK or AK variant to buy?

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brighamr

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Sorry if this has been covered before, I'm on slow internet access and can't search all day. My question is this:

Currently online there are about a billion AKs and AK variants for sale, from the $239 range up to the $1500 range (I'm talking about self-loading, not full-autos). I've owned a couple Saigas, and while I was impressed with the price and the accuracy, they seemed a bit cheap (very thin metal, proprietary mags, and a horrible stock trigger).

Now that I live in a place where i can have a real rifle, I'm looking to buy an AK with 100 round drums, regular AK magazines, compensator, etc. What brand or variant is on the low-price, but good quality medium? I'm looking for brands, country of origion, or even a place to buy if you would be so kind.

Thanks!
 
I'm a big fan of the Norinco. One of, if not the best trigger pull in the AK variants. Quality guns, whether milled or stamped reciever. The stamped recievers are thicker than the typical ak so even they are beefier than the typical. They bring from 400 to 600 depending on the actual model, milled bringing the higher premium. I love mine (stamped) enough to spend more on drums than I did for the rifle. Accuracy is good enough to shoot clay targets @100 with my cheap-o BSA red-dot. Norinco is a chinese product but really of a higher quality than stereotyped. Hope I helped out a bit, Anthony
 
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I asked the same question earlier in the week (I was looking for an underfolder specifically) and everyone was telling me to get a Yugo. They are apparently the best for the money ($400-500) with 1.6mm receivers and the whole lot. I'm probably going to be picking one up in the next few months as soon as the money for it materializes. So my recommendation would be a Yugo. You could probably get a better rifle for a lot more money, but you really shouldn't pay a lot of money for an AK, no matter how good.
 
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Try www.fbmginc.com. The guys who run it post here from time to time. They sell a few different variants that are good. The Tromix Saiga conversions are excellent if you don't mind the cost.
 
All it takes is an hour and some hand tools, and you have one of the best AKs around: Convert your Saiga. It'll lose the crap trigger pull during the operation, and have a Russian made Ak (Saigas are made on the same assembly plants as the AK-100s)

If you don't like the 'thin metal' of the Saiga, you're locking yourself into a milled AK which is quite expensive, just for aesthetics. All the stamped AKs have the "thin metal", which is the way Mr. Kalashnikov designed them.
 
Armory USA/Global Trades makes good AK's and are even better with 1.6mm receivers. The 100 round drums only come in Chinese, and haven't been imported for over ten years. You canb sometimes find them on GunBroker and occassionally at gun shows, but expect to pay at least 250-$300. I have one, but would like more. The Chinese drums also have a door on the back and can be loaded through that door. There is a ratchet assembly to engage the mainspring, so you can store ammunition in the drum without harming the mainspring. Unfortunately, the latches on the drum might make it loose in certain Eastern european AK's. Try before you buy, especially at $300. A cheaper alternative would be a mag-cinch, basically a clip that binds two AK magazines together. It seems to me that a 40 round magazine is about the biggest practical capacity for an AK. Cinch two of these together and you have a quick 80 rounds. I would also recommend to put the magazines with the lips going the same way instead of at opposite ends, as there is a chance for rounds to slip out otherwise.
 
Don't get a Romanian SAR. One was given to me as a present and it is my least favorite firearm I own. Sights are canted and it feels cheaply made.
 
I've got an older Vector that has a chromed barrel that like.

But, I'd probably go with Saiga for other AK's. I've got a converted 308, and future purchases will be the 7.62x39, 12 gauge, and maybe the .223.

They are solid rifles, accurate, and have great chrome-lined bores. In addition, all of them have the scope rail.

It isn't that hard to convert a saiga yourself if you can't go the Tromix/Red Jacket/AKUSA/etc. route.


-- John
 
as stated above, the vectors are very good, though they no longer have the chrome bore. the lancasters are also pretty nice and pretty reasonable (i have one). the yugoslavian underfolders are well spoken of as well, and come with a (less thin) 1.6 mm. reciever, and are running only around $429. i have one of those,too, but had to leave town soon after getting it so can't give any more info. the saigas are also very cool, consider giving them another shot and converting it yourself,or as i did, pay a gunsmith to do it. it's not only my favorite AK, it's my favorite rifle.
 
I throw this picture around often now, but I just want to say that it is not hard to convert a Saiga. I'm 19 (was 18 when I did it) with a dremel, handdrill, hammer, and a vice. The only thing I needed help with was the bullet-guide needed for the 5.56mm version of the gun, and since I've never tapped metal before, I was leery of screwing up.

DSC03737-1.jpg
 
After re-reading your post, there were a couple things I thought about:


I've owned a couple Saigas, and while I was impressed with the price and the accuracy, they seemed a bit cheap (very thin metal, proprietary mags, and a horrible stock trigger).


I don't know what to say about the thin metal. All non-milled AK's have 1mm receivers -- except a few built on 1.6mm RPK receivers. Aresenal produces a 1.6mm receiver if you wanted to have a rifle built (or build one). To use a standard AK parts kit in a 1.6mm receiver, it requires both the front and rear trunnion to be shaved.

As for proprietary magazines, the only time you are STUCK with proprietary magazines is if you have a S-12 (12 gauge), S-20 (20 gauge), S-410 (.410 shotgun), or a S-308 (.308 winchester)

Even in the proprietary, I know that the S-12 has 10 round magazine available and now even a 20 round drum. FBMG makes an excellent 20 round magazine for the S-308.

As for the 7.62x39 and .223, you are not stuck with proprietary magazines. With the installation of a bullet guide and a slight amount of shaving to the magazine release, you can use standard magazines.

Dinzag on the Saiga forums makes 7.62x39 bullet guides that allow use of standard AK magazines. He also makes bullet guides for the .223 that allow the use of Galil magazines in the .223.

In addition to using galil magazines in the .223, you can install an AR-15 magwell adapter from ORF that will allow you to use M-16 magazines in the Saiga .223. You still need a bullet guide. I'll probably go this route if I get a .223

Bear in mind that the conventional wisdom with using high-cap magazines in Saigas require you to go through the 922(r) game of making sure you have the proper amount of non-imported parts. However, ALL AKs go through this. It's just a bit more tricky with Saigas since they use a Russian-made receiver (1 part on the count) where others are using US-made receivers for the most part (some exceptions apply).

If you are going to go the 922(r) route, then you may as well convert the rifle to the traditional look.

That deals with your dislike of the crappy stock trigger. In the conversion, you'll be using a new trigger group. I have a Tapco G2 trigger in my Saiga 308. Its the exact one that Vector used in my Vector Polish underfolder. I'm exploring the idea of using Red Star Arms adjustable trigger in my Saiga 308 in the future. So, as you can see, you are not stuck with the crappy trigger.

I'm looking to buy an AK with 100 round drums, regular AK magazines, compensator, etc.


You would be able to use drums in a converted Saiga 7.62x39. Although, I have to say that I am no fan of drums. I'd rather just carry 3 or 4 stick magazines. They take up less space, and are easier to carry. Plus, they are not a PITA to load.

You can put a compensator on a saiga. The 7.62x39 and .223 are very easy to thread for muzzle attachments. The 308 is a bit trickier due to a difference of barrel diameter and the fact that you really need to move the Front Sight Base rearward if you want to do it right. Then you have to turn the barrel down a bit. I had this done by a local machinist to mine. Mine has a Dragunov 3" Flash Hider threaded on. However, there are smiths on the Saiga forums that now have easier solutions than turning down barrels and moving FSB's.


Saigas are now capable of being brought back to the original configuration rather easily. With a bolt-on handguard retainer, it is possible to get it onto the original wood stocksets, if that is your thing.


What brand or variant is on the low-price, but good quality medium?

Here's the basic run-down as I see it:


Low price:

-Century WASR
-Saiga (spend a small amount converting it and you aren't much more than a WASR)
-IO's STG "clone" -- its a WASR in new furniture

Of these, I personally think the Saiga wins hands down. You get the quality and accuracy of a high-end or premium AK for a LOW cost. A quality conversion commands the price of any high-end or premium AK (see Tromix or Red Jacket to see what I mean...)

Middle Price:

-Century Yugo
-Vector Arms
-Lancaster

I have no experience with the Century Yugo. I have a Vector Polish underfolder that I LOVE. However, I DO recognize that Vectors no longer have chrome-lined barrels-- that can be nice considering some of the crap we shoot through AKs. Vector has a 5-year warranty (which mine JUST ran out) Vectors are built from either Polish or Bulgarian Parts.

I don't know if Lancaster has chrome-lined bores or not. I DO know that Lancaster gives a LIFETIME warranty on thier rifles. To me, that beats out the Vector. The Lancasters I've seen are built with Romanian Parts. You can get a Romanian "G" from Lancaster a bit cheaper than you can get a similar from Vector.


High-End:

Arsenal
Red Jacket converted Saigas
Tromix converted Saigas
AKUSA converted Sagas
Krebbs Custom builds (including converted Saigas)
VEPR
Vector Arms Milled AK


With the converted Saigas, you are paying for the quality of the workmanship of the converted. I haven't heard a single thing bad about any of the converted Saigas listed above. But you will pay a premium for those.

The same can be said of a Krebbs build. It's all about the workmanship.

Arsenal is a straight shot Bulgarian rifle. They are solid as they come and I have NEVER heard a bad thing about one. I don't know if they still make the milled receiver one, but its a favorite. You can expect to pay a good bit for an Arsenal--and a good bit more for a Milled Arsenal.

Vector has a milled AK listed that is cheaper than the Arsenal one-- but I have never heard anything about it from an owner.


---- The milled AKs will give you the weight that you may be looking for-- but they're probably out of the price range you have mentioned.

VEPRs are great AKs... but you will run into things that you have already indicated that you don't like-- mainly proprietary magazines and lack of muzzle brakes, etc. They are built on a 1.6mm receiver. These rifles are great, but on the expensive side.




Really...based upon your price indications, you'd be looking at:

Century WASR (basic rifle)
Saiga (requires some work on your part to get the rifle you want)
Lancaster (may be stretching your budget to the tune of $100 or so more dollars)
Vector (probably stretching your budget to the tune of $200 or so dollars)



I hope this helps!


-- John

P.S.: And I can't help showing off my Saiga 308 DMR. :D :



Saiga308Conversion.jpg
 
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I have a Polytech now and am very happy with it. I believe they may be a bit on the pricey side nowadays tho. AIM Surplus sometimes is a decent place to get AK's at reasonable prices.
 
JWarren said:
You would be able to use drums in a converted Saiga 7.62x39. Although, I have to say that I am no fan of drums. I'd rather just carry 3 or 4 stick magazines. They take up less space, and are easier to carry. Plus, they are not a PITA to load.
My Chinese drum opens up and you just drop the bullets in. No PITA involved.

JWarren said:
Here's the basic run-down as I see it:


Low price:

-Century WASR
-Saiga (spend a small amount converting it and you aren't much more than a WASR)
-IO's STG "clone" -- its a WASR in new furniture
If you convert a Saiga, you are MILES ahead of a WASR or STG clone
 
My Chinese drum opens up and you just drop the bullets in. No PITA involved.


Nice! But as mentioned earlier on this thread, those are RARE and I'd hold onto that one if I were you! :)


If you convert a Saiga, you are MILES ahead of a WASR or STG clone


I was talking about in terms of cost. You CAN convert on the cheap without some of the bells and whistles.


No doubt that you are MILES ahead of what you get in terms of quality.


All the best!



-- John
 
Awesome thread

This thread was the most informative I've seen on AKs. Thank you so much! I think I may give Saiga another chance down the line (Tromix style $$$), but right now I'll be looking for a Norinco :)

Thanks again for all the usefull information!
 
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