Which group is the best?

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Waterboy3313

Waterboy3313

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Finally got some 40gr Hornady V-max projectiles for my 1:14 barrel Frankenstein 223 Rem bolt action rifle. I loaded these in a work up last night and launched them first thing this morning. I'm not happy with the groups but I could use a little help picking out the best group. I am really not disappointed but I feel I can do better. I'm thinking another set of eyes and opinion might be helpful.

These are 5 shot groups. Top left was used as fouler group using different ammo that this rifle really doesn't like. Bottom right was only two shots and same ammo as top left. Bottom middle was part of my work up but it just wasn't happy.
IMG_20220604_081032754.jpg
 
8 looks like it's inbetween a node so I'd not use that, 3 and 5 have a longer node that should make it easier to tune the load.
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I was thinking a long the same lines. And Jim kind of beat me to it. This is the initial work up and I was planning on 10th gr increments + and - 3 tenths as well same powder weight.

Test in one tenth increments on each side of this charge
Click to expand...

I started from the lowest charge and increased in 3 tenth increments until max using hodgdon load data. It's a little more initial work than going say half gr increments but in the end when refining I think it gets it narrowed down a bit faster. I do have a few loads I use that one tenth of gr increase or decrease makes quite a noticeable difference.
 
26.8 and 27.1 are very promising. I would do a flat 27.0 and see what happens there. I suspect your going to call it quits there. There is almost no vertical stringing so your velocity is very consistent, and the left/right movement is minimal which says barrel harmonics are pretty consistent at that point too. Shoot the load at extreme range if you want to work up any further. 300 yards is much more telling than 100 yards as drift and drop become more evident.
 
3rd row down, center target.

If you are like me, you get 4 really tight, then a 5th outside the group and you question yourself, “Was that me? Or the load/gun?”
 
If you are like me, you get 4 really tight, then a 5th outside the group and you question yourself, “Was that me? Or the load/gun?”
Click to expand...

I know that feeling. I have it happen a lot. Doesn't help things being the BLM range I go to is right on the side of a road. I don't remember what group I was on when a big jacked up diesel rolled by and laid on the horn.

Just recently I built a very sturdy yet portable shooting table. I'm usually pretty Shakey and that doesn't help things either. Second time using the table and I've noticed some improvement. I do use a garbage front rest plastic light weight Caldwell. I have to pay a lot of attention to make sure it doesn't rock back when I'm focused on the target while looking through the scope. I think the next upgrade will be something similar to the Caldwell rock front rest. I think it would help a bit more.
 
Heavy barrel or std weight?

Time between shots? Barrel temp

What were your shooting conditions?
Temp
wind speed and direction


The horz spread could be wind. The 25.3 shows the least vertical sting with 1 flier. I would test on each side of it.
 
Heavy barrel or std weight?

Time between shots? Barrel temp

What were your shooting conditions?
Temp
wind speed and direction
Click to expand...

Standard factory barrel profile. It's a stainless 24" Shaw. Time between shots were not timed but they were probably on average 2-3 minutes apart. I was keeping my eye on barrel temp trying to keep in consistent as possible. After each five shot group I would either walk out to look at the target or get up and walk around a little bit. About half way through I actually took a short break and shot my 357 at some random left over clay pigeons.

Today was probably 65-68* F over cast border line of thinking I was going to get rained on. Not much of any wind. Best weather I've had at the range in a long time.
 
I never really had the gumption to get to doing loading and testing like that, but I'd be pretty excited as a first go if it was me, but I've never shot groups like that at 100 yards, or any groups like that at all for that matter so, looks good to me. No major issues apparent with bullet weight, twist, velocity - or any larger issue that could come up having at a project like that.
 
Not knowing any better, I'd pick 25.3.
Horizontal stringing due to slight wind variation with one operator induced flyer. ;)
 
Waterboy3313 said:
I was thinking a long the same lines. And Jim kind of beat me to it. This is the initial work up and I was planning on 10th gr increments + and - 3 tenths as well same powder weight.



I started from the lowest charge and increased in 3 tenth increments until max using hodgdon load data. It's a little more initial work than going say half gr increments but in the end when refining I think it gets it narrowed down a bit faster. I do have a few loads I use that one tenth of gr increase or decrease makes quite a noticeable difference.
Click to expand...
The 25.3 load looks stable but only testing on each side will tell how wide the node is. A one tenth node would be pretty tough to shoot in all conditions as one day it may shoot small and the next day be erratic whereas a wider node is far more forgiving.
Good work and Please report back
 
Last edited:
The 25.3 load looks stable but only testing on each side will tell how wide the node is. A one tenth node would be pretty tough to shoot in all conditions as one day it may shoot small and the next day be erratic whereas a wider node is far more forgiving.
Good work and Please report back
Click to expand...

If only there were more hours in a day. I will probably break down the best three groups from today + and minus 3 tenths in tenth gr increments. The brass I used was once fired by me from the factory (not very often do I use factory stuff) and then loaded for this work up. I will probably start prepping the brass tomorrow and prep it just like I did before. Hopefully using the same brass with the same prep work will help keep out any weird variables.

Hopefully I can get it done by next weekend. Then hope it's not a red flag fire warning. Today was weird weather day. It topped off at 75* next weekend is supposed to be around 105*. I'm hoping I can repeat today with such a change in temperature.
 
Finished my 50 round work up brass prep. Need to wait until it's dry to continue. I've decided since this is my current hobby to really do a detailed second phase. I know this will probably sound stupid to some. I've decided that I am going to try to push Frankenstein to my most detailed and hopefully accurate handload that I can. I figured if I'm going to be punching paper as a hobby I might as well spend the time to do it to the best of my ability.

I don't want to use the term build here because most of what I have done is assembly of parts with some fine tune finish work here and there. No gunsmith involved at all. But the rifle was assembled by me with parts I have decided to use. Only factory parts left are the receiver and some of the bolt parts. So I guess it's kind of a pride thing now.

With that said I will be loading this work up from 25.0gr of powder to 26.3gr in tenth gr increments. It should cover the range of best groups , repeat the best groups and give me everything in-between. Probably way over kill but it should leave me with some pretty good data.
IMG_20220605_111635813.jpg
 
Feels awesome, don't it? Your attention to detail seems to have paid off. Nice shooting.
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Yeah it does feel pretty good. I think that is my best group ever. My buddy was in town this weekend coaching me. He is a very competitive shooter and competes in the king of of two miles competition. It was nice to have him along as well.

I was about to give up on my Frankenstein rifle. I actually put it in the safe thinking I didn't even want to get it out again. I've been working on this setup on and off since January. I was at the point where I was actually going to buy another barrel for a different cartridge and pretty much start over. I'm glad I didn't give up on it.
 
Nice work and shooting @Waterboy3313, I'm 2 years into my latest 223 bolt action and still haven't found a consistent dub moa load for it. At this point I'm using it as a less expensive practice rifle where, if I shoot 7/8 to 11/8 groups I'm doing well.
 
Nice work and shooting @Waterboy3313, I'm 2 years into my latest 223 bolt action and still haven't found a consistent dub moa load for it. At this point I'm using it as a less expensive practice rifle where, if I shoot 7/8 to 11/8 groups I'm doing well.
Click to expand...

I'm happy with where I am with this thing. My buddy was talking with me about trying some different powders and trying to get it better. I don't shoot competitive and very rarely shoot out to 400-500 yards. Mostly 100-250. This rifle did start life from the factory as a 6.5 creedmoor with a garbage barrel.

I spent hours and days trying to get it to group. Factory loads and my handloads would not group. So we ran his borescope through it and and came to the conclusion the the barrel was trash. Using my judgement which might not be the best I decided I was just going to buy a 223 barrel for it. I already load for 223. Stupid me ordered the 1:14 twist barrel. Like I said I don't shoot long range and I don't hunt so 223 actually makes more sense over the creedmoor when components aren't available at every store close by or at all. My wasted creedmoor time was almost double the powder change.

I kind of look at this as my ecomical center fire rifle except for the fact I had a brain fart and ended up with the barrel that doesn't like my go to 223 55gr FMJBT loads that I have been using the last few years. Oh well I think I'm good where I'm at with what I'm using for now.

I guess I will load another 20 of this load and make sure it will duplicate the same results or close before I feel 100%. I guess this being my tightest group ever I'm feeling a little skeptical it will work next time.
 
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