Marshall
Member
I guess in need to go get PIM parts put in all my guns (Plastic Injection Molding). That damn metal sucks! 
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Which Manufacturer makes the most Durable semi-auto pistols?
- Thread starter Mark IV Series 80
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Pendragon
Member
The Valtro is made of 4340 Moly steel that is heat treated, THEN machined. Jardine also makes them oh so slightly beefier than a normal 1911 in a few places.
This is a gun that will see the 23 century.
This is a gun that will see the 23 century.
I will not speculate much on todays pistols but here are my thoughts.
If you stick to a weapon like the original 1911's. original Browning High Power, Polish Radom, French MAB, Star Model B, or Current Colt 1911 that had forged frames or even one of the last of the quality high capacity 9mm's like the Star model 28/30. The frames can almost always be repaired and rebuilt many times over. Its been done and proven.
Try repairing a cracked plastic frame or aluminum frame handgun.
In most cases they are junk. They were sad to say designed as throw away weapons.
For those who doubt this Her Glock himself had this to say about his own handguns and I quote from last months magazine called "The Accurate Rifle" January 2003 Page 17.
And I quote:
Cooper also confirms the rumor I'd heard about his meeting with Gaston Glock in Heidelberg, Germany where Mr. Glock passed the remark that his guns are"plastic, throwaway pistols for plastic, throw away soldiers." a rather shocking comment that Mr. Glock will soon have to explain to the likes of me. End of quote.
The old forge frame handguns were not designed as throw away pistols. In the U.S. arms inventory over a period of almost 100 years some of the 1911's were rebuilt as many as 3 times after having shot upwards of 300,000 rounds apiece out of each pistol.
No handgund made today that is made of plastic or aluminum could ever equal such a record because as I have stated above they are basically non-repairable once the frames develop cracks or worn out mounting pin holes etc. etc.
Ok ,damage control Factory reps save your gun sales and flame away.
If you stick to a weapon like the original 1911's. original Browning High Power, Polish Radom, French MAB, Star Model B, or Current Colt 1911 that had forged frames or even one of the last of the quality high capacity 9mm's like the Star model 28/30. The frames can almost always be repaired and rebuilt many times over. Its been done and proven.
Try repairing a cracked plastic frame or aluminum frame handgun.
In most cases they are junk. They were sad to say designed as throw away weapons.
For those who doubt this Her Glock himself had this to say about his own handguns and I quote from last months magazine called "The Accurate Rifle" January 2003 Page 17.
And I quote:
Cooper also confirms the rumor I'd heard about his meeting with Gaston Glock in Heidelberg, Germany where Mr. Glock passed the remark that his guns are"plastic, throwaway pistols for plastic, throw away soldiers." a rather shocking comment that Mr. Glock will soon have to explain to the likes of me. End of quote.
The old forge frame handguns were not designed as throw away pistols. In the U.S. arms inventory over a period of almost 100 years some of the 1911's were rebuilt as many as 3 times after having shot upwards of 300,000 rounds apiece out of each pistol.
No handgund made today that is made of plastic or aluminum could ever equal such a record because as I have stated above they are basically non-repairable once the frames develop cracks or worn out mounting pin holes etc. etc.
Ok ,damage control Factory reps save your gun sales and flame away.
rick458
Member
The sun Doesn't get over 350 f where I live,
I was not reffering to the frames Melting, I was reffering to ultra Violet Degredation.
UV rays break down plastic and Polymer, the plasticisers break down and leach out, and you lose the flexion in the frame when it quits bending it starts breaking.
and yes I do feel the BUFF is a superior plane to the B2 Spirit B-52s are to remain in the Air Forces inventory until after 2020 I seriosly doubt the Spirit will be.
I was not reffering to the frames Melting, I was reffering to ultra Violet Degredation.
UV rays break down plastic and Polymer, the plasticisers break down and leach out, and you lose the flexion in the frame when it quits bending it starts breaking.
and yes I do feel the BUFF is a superior plane to the B2 Spirit B-52s are to remain in the Air Forces inventory until after 2020 I seriosly doubt the Spirit will be.
H
Handy
Guest
Actually, the B-52 has been extended to 2050.
I too worry about the life of load bearing plastics. I have a cheap Glock, but couldn't get past the service life issues of more expensive poly guns. Mostly steel, some aluminum.
Steel (or titanium) are always going to be the best bet (all else considered). You can make a lightweight frame out of steel, but it's more difficult than casting plastic or machining aluminum.
I too worry about the life of load bearing plastics. I have a cheap Glock, but couldn't get past the service life issues of more expensive poly guns. Mostly steel, some aluminum.
Steel (or titanium) are always going to be the best bet (all else considered). You can make a lightweight frame out of steel, but it's more difficult than casting plastic or machining aluminum.
I always love a post where the phase, "hands down" is used. "XXXXX brand gun is the best, hands down!". I need a good laugh once in a while. "Hands down" usually means "I have one gun and its this brand and I like it the best out of the other 500 brands of firearms I have not tried." Not always, of course, but usually.
There are lots of good firearms on that list. Some have been proven by rigorous testing while others gain a reputation by internet polls like this one.
The firearms that have been used by the military are generally accepted as being the most reliable and durable. They don't last long on the front line if they aren't reliable and durable.
Look to the armed forces for evidence. Military and police weapons usually are the best.
There are lots of good firearms on that list. Some have been proven by rigorous testing while others gain a reputation by internet polls like this one.
The firearms that have been used by the military are generally accepted as being the most reliable and durable. They don't last long on the front line if they aren't reliable and durable.
Look to the armed forces for evidence. Military and police weapons usually are the best.
rick458
Member
And Don't get me wrong I beleive that a Glock is a VERY good pistol, and it is obvious that millions love them. they just aren't likely to LAST as long as a steel framed pistol ESP a Stainless one.
T.Stahl
Member
How much does rebuilding a 1911-frame cost?
compared to:
How much does a new Glock frame cost?
Yes, Glocks are cheap, throwaway guns. But compared to their price it takes awfully long until their useful service life is exceeded.
compared to:
How much does a new Glock frame cost?
Yes, Glocks are cheap, throwaway guns. But compared to their price it takes awfully long until their useful service life is exceeded.
TheeBadOne
Member
Glock
Glock as passed batteries of harsh Government testing with flying colors. The only thing that has ever stopped it was requirments of a manual safety lever/switch. Glocks have been tossed in tubs of salt water for insane periods of time and gone right on firing, frozen in blocks of ice, buried in mud, etc and kept right on firing. All the guns mentioned are very durible and I'd have no problem carrying any of them. Glocks rock.
Glock as passed batteries of harsh Government testing with flying colors. The only thing that has ever stopped it was requirments of a manual safety lever/switch. Glocks have been tossed in tubs of salt water for insane periods of time and gone right on firing, frozen in blocks of ice, buried in mud, etc and kept right on firing. All the guns mentioned are very durible and I'd have no problem carrying any of them. Glocks rock.
I’d park a vehicle on any of my GLOCKs, (Personally seen that “test†done…) but wouldn’t submit any of my steel framed guns to that test. “Plastic†flexes, steel bends……. I’d say the mag-well on most steel framed guns wouldn’t hold to that test.
To me, a durable gun has to put up with several, possible accidental tortures it may endure in its lifetime.
To me, a durable gun has to put up with several, possible accidental tortures it may endure in its lifetime.
Well there was the "frisbee test" wherein a Glock was thrown some distance and the slide flew off during trials for a certain federal agency. I'd count that as a failed test which stopped its consideration for that agency. Then there are those confidence inspiring "upgrades" to Perfection.
As for the carnival tests that Glock performs, they're ridiculous. If your personal weapon is frozen in a block of ice, trapped under a tire of a truck, lost for xxxx hours in a salt water bath, chances are you are dead or on a life flight chopper.
One place you won't see Glock testing: running into a burning building to rescue a child. Wouldn't want the frame to look like a waxwork gone bad.
Glocks are fine pistols, but they do not have all that much performance margin, if any at all, over other "combat duty" grade pistols out there, just better PR and hucksterism.
If anyone knows the trade secrets of the Glock cult it would be a mall security guard such as yourself. I just go by what I hear outside of that perverse circle. I don't speak enough foreign languages to work at my local McDonald's, so I will just have to make due doing well enough to afford more than a Glock.
H
Handy
Guest
I'm with Boats. The Glock is a good issue pistol, but not a lifetime gun. Aside from frame rail, trigger spring and popping off slides (all are true), expecting a piece of plastic the receives load cycles and is bathed in oil to last indefinitely is pure fantasy.
A plastic pistol frame is in the same boat as composite bicycle frames and tennis rackets. As those items get used, they get brittle and begin to delaminate and crack. There are wood and metal bike frame that are 100 years old and rideable. There are 5 year old Trek composites that aren't.
And if Glock frames are going to be so cheap to replace someday, why do they cost the consumer the same money as machined metal ones do now?
A plastic pistol frame is in the same boat as composite bicycle frames and tennis rackets. As those items get used, they get brittle and begin to delaminate and crack. There are wood and metal bike frame that are 100 years old and rideable. There are 5 year old Trek composites that aren't.
And if Glock frames are going to be so cheap to replace someday, why do they cost the consumer the same money as machined metal ones do now?
Nathaniel Firethorn
Member
It's the PARTS, stupid!
Everything breaks.
A durable gun is one for which you can easily obtain and replace the parts.
HK parts availability and replacement:
:banghead:
Glock parts availability and replacement:
My vote's for Glock. With a polymer 1911 as a strong runner up.
- pdmoderator
Everything breaks.
A durable gun is one for which you can easily obtain and replace the parts.
HK parts availability and replacement:
:banghead: Glock parts availability and replacement:
My vote's for Glock. With a polymer 1911 as a strong runner up.
- pdmoderator
H
Handy
Guest
That's only true in part. The part of all composite materials that detiorates is the bonding material, not the fibers. That's true if it is a polyester resin, epoxy or polymer. They are all complex carbon chains that break down with time, heat, light and friction.
Nathaniel Firethorn
Member
If it got that bad, then whoever's carrying it will either be wearing Nomex and SCBA, or will look like an overdone pork rind.
I've tried to smooth out a rough spot on my G19 with a Dremel. It was tough going. Whatever the plastic is, it don't give up easy.
- pdmoderator
Politically Incorrect
Member
Sure, plastics today are better than they were thirty years ago, but I'm not so sure that plastic is still more durable than metal.
On my '73 Eldorado, the plastic extenders in and around the bumpers became brittle and rotted away while the metal is all there. I wish they had made the whole body out of metal. But I guess it saves a couple of pounds off of a 2 1/2 ton car.
I'll think about plastic frames while I'm shooting a 1911 that was produced in 1918.
I'm still waiting for a plastic frame pistol.
On my '73 Eldorado, the plastic extenders in and around the bumpers became brittle and rotted away while the metal is all there. I wish they had made the whole body out of metal. But I guess it saves a couple of pounds off of a 2 1/2 ton car.
I'll think about plastic frames while I'm shooting a 1911 that was produced in 1918.
I'm still waiting for a plastic frame pistol.
stretcharmstrong
Member
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- Jan 9, 2003
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All 3 of my pistols are metal and they still work so I guess all Glocks suck hard....hehe....j/k.
Who cares. If it goes bang now and still continues to go bang reliably, shoot it and have safe fun with it.
As far as metal vs. plastics....didn't the army switch from steel helmets to kevlar? Don't banks still use steel beams in their vaults? Aren't most of the strongest locks made of some sort of metal alloy? Isn't superman called the man of steel, not plastic? How come cars today made of much more plastic then there predecessors are safer and go many more miles (than most but not all) of the earlier mostly steel cars 30+ years ago?
As you can see, it all depends on the application. One isn't neccessarily better than the others. Time will tell if the polymer pistols can endure...or just end up as a fad. Most likely, I think they will endure just fine.
Now stop arguing about frivilous internet babble and start packing your range bag!!
Who cares. If it goes bang now and still continues to go bang reliably, shoot it and have safe fun with it.
As far as metal vs. plastics....didn't the army switch from steel helmets to kevlar? Don't banks still use steel beams in their vaults? Aren't most of the strongest locks made of some sort of metal alloy? Isn't superman called the man of steel, not plastic? How come cars today made of much more plastic then there predecessors are safer and go many more miles (than most but not all) of the earlier mostly steel cars 30+ years ago?
As you can see, it all depends on the application. One isn't neccessarily better than the others. Time will tell if the polymer pistols can endure...or just end up as a fad. Most likely, I think they will endure just fine.
Now stop arguing about frivilous internet babble and start packing your range bag!!
Poohgyrr
Member
Hey !!! Where is my BROWNING HI POWER at???
The P-35 has been around a lot longer than most of these johnnie come latelys, and used by more people too !!
PS: stretcharmstrong has it right, quit wasting time and go shoot
The P-35 has been around a lot longer than most of these johnnie come latelys, and used by more people too !!
PS: stretcharmstrong has it right, quit wasting time and go shoot
Mark IV Series 80
Member
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- Dec 28, 2002
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Sorry about that Poohgyrr...... It's an obvious ommision.
A good thing is, the write-in option works.
Are the Browning Hi-Powers still being imported?
I haven't seen one for some time at the gun shop.
KPersimmon
Member
What a can of worms this poll opens!
Gotta love it! Very much like TFL!
Keep up the good work!
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