Which Nodes Would You Do Further Development For, And Why?

[peeplwtchr]

Hi All-

Pretty new to reloading, and at this point, I have very basic knowledge about load development. I have just started to research it formally, and am reading many contradictory things such as horizontal grouping is more important than vertical, vice versa etc..

Would you be kind enough to let me know which groups in the pic below, you would continue development for and why? I can use this to help analyze my 10 other initial ladder tests.

I am thinking 23.4, 24.0, 24.6?

Thanks!

 

[IALoder]

I would personally play around the 23.4 to 24.0 range, take the one shot on the 23.7 group out (I allow for a pulled shot usually) and it's pretty similar in size to 23.4 and 24.0. POI is the same for all 3, similar groups. Definitely worth looking in that area. Nice shooting!

 

[GoldieMI]

I would personally play around the 23.4 to 24.0 range, take the one shot on the 23.7 group out (I allow for a pulled shot usually) and it's pretty similar in size to 23.4 and 24.0. POI is the same for all 3, similar groups. Definitely worth looking in that area. Nice shooting!

Same here +1
and then play with your seating depth to tune it as tight as you need it to be.

 

[peeplwtchr]

I would personally play around the 23.4 to 24.0 range, take the one shot on the 23.7 group out (I allow for a pulled shot usually) and it's pretty similar in size to 23.4 and 24.0. POI is the same for all 3, similar groups. Definitely worth looking in that area. Nice shooting!

So is the logic behind a similar POI indicative of a stronger node or something?

 

[peeplwtchr]

Nice shooting!

Thanks, any shooting tips I have came from an "Ex" (Are they ever?) Sniper. They are good friends to have.

 

[Demi-human]

I think there is less vertical dispersion in the higher charges and would look at and between the two for more data.

 

[Walkalong]

How was the wind when you shot these? That affects POI.

Have any numbers to go with each charge weight?

23.1 to 24.0 looks interesting. Try three each at 23.2, 23.5, 23.7, 24.0, and get numbers (HI, Lo, Avg, ES, SD) with them? Then tweak as needed?

What is the goal? Close range accuracy, or long range where a small SD is also a must?

These are five shot each after previously doing three shots each of 32.1, 32.2, 32.3, but I wasn't starting from scratch, just tweaking a new lot of powder after initial testing the same charge weight from before, so I knew where I needed to be. Normally I would do 3 shots each every 2 tenths.

 

[GoldieMI]

So is the logic behind a similar POI indicative of a stronger node or something?

it shows the "tendencies" of the shots in the absence of chronograph data - I'm a chronograph loader so bear with me here
wider margins for plus/minus of the median weights for the common POI if your POA was the same for all groups.
ignoring the wind effect if any was present, and not knowing what your components/caliber are
if that makes sense to you

 

[kmw1954]

I see three possibilities; I would load again the 23.1 then 23.2, 23.3 and again the 23.4. first to see if 23.1 and 23.4 are repeatable and do they tighten up in-between. Then the 24.0, 23.9 and 24.1. Lastly the 24.6 and again .1gr on both sides.

The ladder I've been working on is for a 62gr. Hornady 223 with Ramshot TAC powder. Previous load group ended with a load of 23.7gr and looked very good so I went back and loaded another 18 23.7 and then also loaded 18ea. of 23.8 and 23.9... The 23.9 opened up again compared to the other two. After 18 shots of the each of the 23.7 and 23.8 I could not discern a sizable difference between the two loads. Which to me would indicate a node. Now is it the best or most accurate node? IDK yet.

 

[FROGO207]

I try to use the node with the widest spread. Load in the center and tweak the bullet. Most often I find the lowest load node is the most forgiving with respect to propellant charge variation and temperature.

 

[IALoder]

it shows the "tendencies" of the shots in the absence of chronograph data - I'm a chronograph loader so bear with me here
wider margins for plus/minus of the median weights for the common POI if your POA was the same for all groups.
ignoring the wind effect if any was present, and not knowing what your components/caliber are
if that makes sense to you

That explains it as well as I could do!

 

[peeplwtchr]

How was the wind when you shot these? That affects POI.

Have any numbers to go with each charge weight?

23.1 to 24.0 looks interesting. Try three each at 23.2, 23.5, 23.7, 24.0, and get numbers (HI, Lo, Avg, ES, SD) with them? Then tweak as needed?

What is the goal? Close range accuracy, or long range where a small SD is also a must?

These are five shot each after previously doing three shots each of 32.1, 32.2, 32.3, but I wasn't starting from scratch, just tweaking a new lot of powder after initial testing the same charge weight from before, so I knew where I needed to be. Normally I would do 3 shots each every 2 tenths.

1. No wind
2. No numbers, I don't have a Chrono yet
3. I don't hunt or compete, so goal for now is a good load for 100-200 yds
4. Thanks for your process info.!

 

[Walkalong]

2. No numbers, I don't have a Chrono yet
3. I don't hunt or compete, so goal for now is a good load for 100-200 yds

Then group size is what I would be looking at. 23.1 to 23.4

 

[peeplwtchr]

it shows the "tendencies" of the shots in the absence of chronograph data - I'm a chronograph loader so bear with me here
wider margins for plus/minus of the median weights for the common POI if your POA was the same for all groups.
ignoring the wind effect if any was present, and not knowing what your components/caliber are
if that makes sense to you

Good point about components/specs., skipped my mind. 18" new Wilson Combat fluted 1:8 barrel, Varget, Hornady Match 75gr. BTHP bullets, CCI 400 primers, 2.25 COL, 1.83 ogive reading, 1.75 case trim, L.C brass, .002 crimp.

 

[peeplwtchr]

Then group size is what I would be looking at. 23.1 to 23.4

Interesting you should say that. In my DD 18" 1:7 barrel, 23.8 got me approx. 1/3 MOA. Damn, now I've gotta learn more about twist. I knew this was going to be a rabbit hole, but damn.

 

[GoldieMI]

I think you have it at 23.4 marked with NODE already.
+/- .1 grain at 100 yards and you are still in a wide area

 

[Walkalong]

Interesting you should say that. In my DD 18" 1:7 barrel, 23.8 got me approx. 1/3 MOA.

Well, toss one shot and 23.7 to 24.0 also looks good. After all, one group means nothing.

Shot back to back in a registered Benchrest match, same shooter (me), same gun, same load. Let one hand out on the 3rd relay

 

[JFrank]

Your 3/10 increments may be a tad course for such a small case you could pass bye a charge window quite easily.

I look for groups to hit the same point of impact at greater distances using wind flags of course then evaluate the results.

 

[peeplwtchr]

Halfway through the testing, 12 more to go. I got several MOA groups, but I'm calling this the best so far. I remember accidentally shooting the flier before I was set. 5 shot group.

 

[GoldieMI]

how did the remainder of the testing go?

 

[AJC1]

Based on the vertical stability in the 23 gr range I would see if your buddy has a crono and shoot a window of the 23-24 grain range to verify if your repeatable and try and define the size of the "node" . To me a node is a band not a load and finding the size of the band helps. If your band is .6 grains wide but your testing now, powder dependent I would be near the bottom knowing it's only going to get warmer.

 

[JFrank]

Y"all really should invest in a good wind flag and tall stand.

 

[JFrank]

Hi All-

Pretty new to reloading, and at this point, I have very basic knowledge about load development. I have just started to research it formally, and am reading many contradictory things such as horizontal grouping is more important than vertical, vice versa etc..

Would you be kind enough to let me know which groups in the pic below, you would continue development for and why? I can use this to help analyze my 10 other initial ladder tests.

I am thinking 23.4, 24.0, 24.6?

Thanks!

Based on this point of impact sample and considering the lack of flags I would suggest the node is from 23.4. to 24.0
from there it breaks out of the quadrant.
Recommend you re test in .02 increments in smaller quantities perhaps 3 rounds each and as AJC1 points out a Chrono will help.

 

[Kaldor]

Im assuming you are running this from an AR? What bullet are you shooting?

23.4 would be where I might mess with seating depth a bit. The group is nice and round and consistent and 3-4 thou seating depth can make a big difference.
24.6 because it has the least vertical dispersion. That one I would reshoot to verify.