SwampWolf
Member
I have owned a couple of Gold Cups over the years and have had no complaints. Smith & Wesson makes a nice 1911 and their customer service is as good as any.
Which of these two 1911s would YOU buy and why...
- Thread starter tbreihan
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Well, a little more detail... I had it pretty much narrowed down to either the Kimber Custom II or the basic Colt Series 80 Government. I had set an upper limit budget of $1000 for myself, but was planning on spending closer to $800.
I had also looked at a few DWs, a few S&Ws, and a few Springfields. Very few of the dealers in my area stock Springfields, or at least what I was interested in. The DWs seemed abundant either in 10mm or with target sights, but I wanted .45 ACP and combat sites. Plus, every dealer that had them was selling the DWs for $100-$200 over MSRP. The S&Ws I just didn't really get on with. I was almost derailed by a beautiful Browning Hi-Power in polished blue yesterday, but it was selling for over MSRP and was just a bit more than my budget. What a sweet gun, though!
I went up to the local Cabela's this morning and handled all three Colts again (Series 80, XSE, and Elite Combat and the Elite Combat pretty clearly identified itself as the one. It was a little more, obviously, but still in my budget.
The funny thing about the Colts... Kimber is a much "nicer" gun in almost all respects, and I have shot a number of range-rental Kimbers with perfect reliability, but they just seem like toys instead of tools to me. Again, this is no bash against Kimber because I truly have nothing bad to say about them, but a Colt feels like a tool in the way that a Glock or Sig does, and the Kimber just doesn't.
Hopefully I'll get it to the range this weekend, but I field stripped and cleaned it this afternoon. I am not sure what MIM parts Colt uses, but the only thing that seemed like it might be (that I could see, anyway), is the thumb safety. On the other hand, the thumb safety, slide release, and grip safety all have an identical raw metal finish, so it may just be cast. The hammer looks to EDM wire cut.
The slide and frame have clean machining inside and out; the inside is only slightly rougher than my Beretta M9, which is a very finely-machined gun. The bottom outer edges of the slide are sharp, but not as sharp as the Springfield guns. The barrel is has a polished and throated feed ramp and the chamber is about as tight as the M9's. The extractor seems to be barstock and is perfectly tensioned. The barrel is *very* tightly fitted to the slide and to the bushing, and the bushing to slide fit is moderately tight. Slide to frame fit is tight and fairly smooth, and I'm sure it will smooth up with some use. Lock-up is TIGHT with no movement at either end of the barrel.
The trigger pull is a tad heavy (5+ lbs) but very crisp. The trigger is loose and rattles and the grip safety is too, but otherwise that gun is tight and solid. It has nice cocobolo grips and genuine Novak's rear sight. Takedown with the FLGR is not as arduous as expected, so I will probably just leave that as is.
Overall, very impressed! I will post some pics shortly.
I had also looked at a few DWs, a few S&Ws, and a few Springfields. Very few of the dealers in my area stock Springfields, or at least what I was interested in. The DWs seemed abundant either in 10mm or with target sights, but I wanted .45 ACP and combat sites. Plus, every dealer that had them was selling the DWs for $100-$200 over MSRP. The S&Ws I just didn't really get on with. I was almost derailed by a beautiful Browning Hi-Power in polished blue yesterday, but it was selling for over MSRP and was just a bit more than my budget. What a sweet gun, though!
I went up to the local Cabela's this morning and handled all three Colts again (Series 80, XSE, and Elite Combat and the Elite Combat pretty clearly identified itself as the one. It was a little more, obviously, but still in my budget.
The funny thing about the Colts... Kimber is a much "nicer" gun in almost all respects, and I have shot a number of range-rental Kimbers with perfect reliability, but they just seem like toys instead of tools to me. Again, this is no bash against Kimber because I truly have nothing bad to say about them, but a Colt feels like a tool in the way that a Glock or Sig does, and the Kimber just doesn't.
Hopefully I'll get it to the range this weekend, but I field stripped and cleaned it this afternoon. I am not sure what MIM parts Colt uses, but the only thing that seemed like it might be (that I could see, anyway), is the thumb safety. On the other hand, the thumb safety, slide release, and grip safety all have an identical raw metal finish, so it may just be cast. The hammer looks to EDM wire cut.
The slide and frame have clean machining inside and out; the inside is only slightly rougher than my Beretta M9, which is a very finely-machined gun. The bottom outer edges of the slide are sharp, but not as sharp as the Springfield guns. The barrel is has a polished and throated feed ramp and the chamber is about as tight as the M9's. The extractor seems to be barstock and is perfectly tensioned. The barrel is *very* tightly fitted to the slide and to the bushing, and the bushing to slide fit is moderately tight. Slide to frame fit is tight and fairly smooth, and I'm sure it will smooth up with some use. Lock-up is TIGHT with no movement at either end of the barrel.
The trigger pull is a tad heavy (5+ lbs) but very crisp. The trigger is loose and rattles and the grip safety is too, but otherwise that gun is tight and solid. It has nice cocobolo grips and genuine Novak's rear sight. Takedown with the FLGR is not as arduous as expected, so I will probably just leave that as is.
Overall, very impressed! I will post some pics shortly.
deputy tom
Member
I voted Colt's due to problems with previously owned kimber IIs.YMMV.tom.
Gunnerpalace
Member
I don't like colt as a company but I would suggest that before the kimber, I just would not want a gun that has so many complaints with it,
I have to ask did you check Gunbroker? or would your rather examine the pistol before buying?
I have to ask did you check Gunbroker? or would your rather examine the pistol before buying?
CoRoMo
Member
I chose the Colt because of the two, well... sorta like comparing apples and swords.
weisse52
Member
A Colt is always the right answer!
My Colts have been flawless. The new ones are better than most production guns with fewer MIM parts that similar platforms
I only buy "plain jane" 1911.s. Cause that is what works for me!
My Colts have been flawless. The new ones are better than most production guns with fewer MIM parts that similar platforms
I only buy "plain jane" 1911.s. Cause that is what works for me!
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I do not like either variant of the Swartz safety. The Colt's affects the trigger, while the Kimber, acting on the grip safety tang, makes the gun harder to detail strip. In my experience, the Kimber is more accurate, but mine was not a 100% gun. That being said, I've put over 12,000 rds through my Springfield Loaded without a single failure. However, it is not nearly as accurate as my Kimber Stainless Target II was.
The Swartz safety installed on Colts had nothing to do with the trigger; it was similar in action to the current Kimber II system. Kimber copied the old Colt Swartz system. I think maybe you are confusing the 80 Series firing pin safety with the Swartz system?
The 80 Series firing pin safety, while working off trigger components, does not really affect trigger feel unless perhaps you pick up a gun with some very bad components in it (I have never, actually). I was a long time "avoider" of the fp safety and ignored it for a long, long time. But I have spent almost 2.5 years looking for a Colt Commander I liked - and passing on rough or overpriced pre-80 commanders by the dozen. Finding the cleanest, best example resulted in a new production 1991 80 NRM model. Now I can state objectively that my out-of-the box unmodified Series 80 commander has the best trigger feel of any 1911 I own except two custom Caspians. Light, crisp, consistent - there is no way to tell it is an 80 or a 70 just based on the trigger feel.
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Colt vs Kimber?
I voted for Colt, even though my series 70 Colt 1911 malfunctioned with every possible failure a 1911 is capable of roducing. But, once the problems were fixed (bushing, spring, extractor, lowered & flared, etc, it was flawlies, and accurate. A Colt is a Colt is a Colt. Etc.
I voted for Colt, even though my series 70 Colt 1911 malfunctioned with every possible failure a 1911 is capable of roducing. But, once the problems were fixed (bushing, spring, extractor, lowered & flared, etc, it was flawlies, and accurate. A Colt is a Colt is a Colt. Etc.
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