Which one?

[mykeal]

1st Generation Colts is a term that's rarely used. It would refer to guns made in the USA of parts made in the USA by Colt's Manufacturing Company, Inc. In this context (black powder percussion revolvers) they would have been made in the 1840's-1870's.

2nd Generation Colts is a much more common term which refers to guns made in the USA by Colt's Manufacturing Co. Inc. using castings/forgings made in Italy by Uberti. They are considered to be genuine Colt guns. They were made between 1971 and 1976 ('C' Series) and between 1978 and 1982 ('F' Series).

3rd Generation Colts refers to guns made in the USA by Colt Blackpowder Arms, Inc., under license to Colt's Manufacturing Co. Inc., using castings/forgings made in Italy by Uberti. They were made between 1994 and 2002. There is debate as to whether they qualify as genuine Colts.

The use of the 'Generation' distinctions in Colt history means different time periods for different models. In the case of their percussion revolvers the meanings are as stated above; for later cartridge guns the time periods and manufacturing details will be different.

Armi San Marco is an Italian firm which was purchased and reorganized as American Western Arms in 2000. Until that event they built several replica black powder guns for importation and sale in the US. They suffered from the same 'soft parts' quality problems as all Italian manufacturers in the 1980's and 1990's; they are considered to be generally acceptable, but not outstanding quality.

 

[pwillie]

Great info! Thanks for your reply. So none of the later generation Colts or all Colt,and made in the USA.?It seems that Uberti would be almost as good as the "Colts"? I wanted a strong action gun,and I guess a Ruger Old Army would fit my use as good as any.Thanks again, Willie. BTW what is your preference?

 

[sltm1]

pwillie, You gotta read what's written, not what you think's between the lines. Uberti made the cast parts for 2nd & 3rd gen colts, they were finished in the USA and authenticated as genuine colts (the 2nd gen can actually be papered from the factory). Ruger makes the strongest frame bp revolver ever constructed. Figure out what appeals to you asthetically then buy it. Chances are you'll want more after the first one anyhow so go ahead and take the plunge.

 

[mykeal]

So none of the later generation Colts or all Colt,and made in the USA.?

That's not what I said. As sltm1 says, read what's written.

2nd and 3rd Generation Colts were made in the USA by US Colt workers using genuine Colt processes and genuine Colt small parts. Uberti supplied rough castings only.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I guess a Ruger Old Army would fit my use as good as any

One of the finest C&B revolvers you can buy. An excellent learning platform and well last a lifetime. If your already familiar with Ruger revolvers that's a plus.

 

[pwillie]

[/QUOTE] The point I was trying to make,is that most of the post war (WW2)european countries,metal products were less than be desired. Ihave owned many Brit and Italian bikes,that had very poor metal castings,sorta like the old pot metal built bycycles after ww2.I was concerned about the steel quality,nothing more. Colt didn't produce a real all American gun?Like Ford builds trucks in Kentucky,but gets castings and parts from Canada and Mexico? Willie.

 

[pwillie]

MYKILL: What are the rough castings supplied by Italy(Uberti)? Thanks, Willie

 

[mykeal]

I don't know for sure. Probably the frame and grip frame.

 

[pwillie]

How about a Cimarron? I think they made by Uberti...I have a friend who went to work for the Cimarron folks about a year ago,as a sales person,maaybe I need to contact him.Willie

 

[mykeal]

Cimarron are indeed made by Uberti. Many claim they are the best quality guns Uberti makes.

 

[pwillie]

I called "Taylors" today,and spoke to a guy in the smithy dept.He answered many of my questions about the pros and cons of black powder shooting.The best answer was the quality question (Pietta vs Uberti) and the Uberti was his choice on some of the replicas. I was amazed about his response about the Ruger. He said like most of you ,that the Ruger Old Army was well made model.But,he also said that the Uberti was easier to reload than the Ruger.I asked about the revolver that Eastwood used in the movie "Pale Rider",and he said that it was not a Ruger and could have been a Replica by Uberti or some other Like Pietta,but wasn't sure. His choice for just range shooting is the Uberti Remington 1858 model. Thanks all for your help,Willie. And you will never know what a "Fruit Salad country" is!!!!!

 

[mykeal]

Your friend at Taylor's has some unusual ideas. Claiming that a Uberti (Remington? Colt? Top break? Cattleman?) is easier to reload than a Ruger is just utter nonsense. Did he say why he held that view? As far as the Pale Rider gun, who said that it was a Ruger? I don't find that claim anywhere in this thread. His choice for a range gun is an excellent one, however; can't fault that.

 

[pwillie]

No,he did not say the "Pale Rider" was a Ruger,he said that he didn't know what it was,and that it could be a "worked" up Hollywood from a Uberti or Pietta.THe Ruger he was talking about has a 3 piece front were as the Uberti has a one piece action to remove the cylinder.And I am talking about the Remington 1858 model.This guy fits the R&D cylinders for the converting to 45 LC.So I am thinking about buying direct from Taylor,and have him fit my 45 LC cylinder.The one I want as of now,is the 5 1/2 inch Uberti Remington.I also found a Ruger Old Army at a local gunshop,for 525.00 new in the box,which I plan to purchase.

 

[AdmiralB]

he also said that the Uberti was easier to reload than the Ruger

Remington clones, Pietta or Uberti, are easier and faster to swap cylinders. The actual loading process doesn't really vary from Colt/Remington/Ruger.

The Pale Rider gun is a cartridge conversion...dunno if it's a repro or an original, but it's got a keyed gate on the back of the frame that makes it a lot quicker to get the cylinder back in.

 

[pwillie]

He wasn't talking about the swing gate,which he does not convert(which is involved in milling the gun)His point was the Uberti-Pietta repos had a single motion to swap the cylinder. Also,why is Dixie Gun Works being dissed on many gun forums? Any one have a bad experience with Dixie?

 

[mykeal]

pwillie, you keep using the manufacturer names (Uberti and Pietta) as if they were gun designs, or models. There's a great deal of difference in the basic design of Colt and Remington percussion revolvers, and both Uberti and Pietta make both kinds. When you use Uberti and Pietta we don't know what design or model you're referring to, and a statement like, "the Uberti-Pietta repos had a single motion to swap the cylinder" makes no sense. It would be much better if you'd use the design (Colt, Remington, etc.) or model (1851 Navy, 1858 New Army, Dragoon, etc.) name instead of the manufacturer name. The statement, "the 1858 New Army had a single motion to swap the cylinder" would make more sense. It's not correct, but at least we'd see the point and be able to respond.

I've not seen any complaining about Dixie on any of the forums I visit, so I can't speak to that.

 

[pwillie]

Thanks Mykill: I don't think That I am explaining my point very well.I am new to C&B pistols,so please forgive my illusion of what I am talking about.Give me a few monthes,and I will be profiecent in this topic.Just kiddin,your pal, Willie. PS, I will keep you posted,as I will need your help.

 

[pwillie]

BTW,has anyone heard of a Co. by the name of EMF ? DO they import or MFG their on line of revolvers?

 

[bigbadgun]

EMF is an importer and I think they import both Uberti and Pietta in both Colt and Remington. Another place you can look is the possible shop.
keep in mind that with the italian repos both Uberti and Pietta make a damn fine revolver. I have pieces made by both. If you are just starting out in cap and ball let me suggest the 1858 remington very nice revolver.
and the remington is what Clint carried in Pale Rider but with the R&D conversion pop the cylinder out and pop in a loaded one. Not a one step process but fast non the less.

 

[AdmiralB]

His point was the Uberti-Pietta repos had a single motion to swap the cylinder.

Cock to half-cock, drop the loading lever, pull the cylinder pin and rotate the cylinder out, then reverse with new cylinder ain't what I'd call "a single motion". The Pale Rider gun worked exactly the same way, but the gate had a slot that made getting the new cylinder in easier. There's a trick to doing it quickly. Sometimes I can swap a cylinder as quickly as five seconds, sometimes as long as fifteen.

It's not really that much faster than swapping on a Colt-style, if the gun has a wedge that can be pushed out with hand pressure. Only hassle there is, you have to hold the barrel assembly somewhere while you swap.

 

[pwillie]

Just came back from the gun store,and to my surprise,the Ruger Old Army is a 5 1/2 inch barrel in polished stainless,with pearl like grips,this must be the sheriff model? I have never seen one like this before,and it is new in the box with all the papers,what a find.Willie

 

[madcratebuilder]

Just came back from the gun store,and to my surprise,the Ruger Old Army is a 5 1/2 inch barrel in polished stainless,with pearl like grips,this must be the sheriff model? I have never seen one like this before,and it is new in the box with all the papers,what a find.Willie

That's a steal at $525, the last few 7.5 ss models brought 650+ on gunbroker, better go buy the puppy, or send me the name of the shop.

It's not really that much faster than swapping on a Colt-style, if the gun has a wedge that can be pushed out with hand pressure. Only hassle there is, you have to hold the barrel assembly somewhere while you swap.

Yes Sir. IF the arbor and frame is properly fit to the barrel assembly, and the wedge is properly fit all you need is thumb pressure to pop the wedge out. A third hand would come in handy

 

[WilliamFeldmann]

Shorty Ruger

That really is a find for $525. The short barreled Rugers are rare and you don't see them for sale very often, blued or stainless. Treasure it, you aren't likely to find it a mate, at least not cheap or anytime soon.

The Pale Rider Remington represents the major boon that the design had over the Colts, the quick swap out of cylinders, both in cap and ball and cartridges.

I have seen Rugers that are converted for quick cylinder changes also. The slotted retaining screw is replaced by a knurled headed screw and the loading lever is removed. Sometimes the retaining pin is also replaced. On these models the cylinder swap could be as fast as a Remington Design.

I would love to set my Rugers up with the knurled retaining screw so I don't have to carry the wrench to the range. Anyone know who makes them. I know the pins are Belt Mountain, but can't find replacement screws.

Also, where can I get a third hand like madcratebuilder is talking about. I ALWAYS need one of those.

 

[pwillie]

Madcrate: The shorty is a big surprise find....man,am I lucky....this will not be fired. I am still looking for a Uberti or Ruger in the 1858 Remington.

 

[WilliamFeldmann]

Ruger and Remington designs are different, in significant ways. They just look similar to an untrained eye at 50 yards.

Why would you not shoot the shorty Ruger? You would have to hold it so long for it to be a collector, its return on investment would be very poor. (sorry that finance degree won't leave me alone)

Guns are made to shoot. Now a special edition with fine engraving and real ivory, or a gun with a distinguished, or unique hisotry, I can see not shooting something like that, but otherwise it will just be a safe queen, and those are the loneliest guns of all. I mean there are guys on here who have original Remingtons or Colts and have shot them. Those are 140 year old guns.